IRC log started Fri Jan 28 00:00:02 2000 [msg(TUNES)] permlog 2000.0128 -:- SignOff dullblack: #TUNES (Read error to dullblack[210-55-149-169.dialup.xtra.co.nz]: Connection reset by peer) heh you'd think it'd be a little more stable than this 12:20am -:- SignOff ree: #TUNES (Disconnecting) -:- ree [js@twisted.goodnet.com] has joined #tunes -:- smokie [tw026024@zaalf15.twi.tudelft.nl] has joined #tunes hey smokie 02:30am hi ree working on anything? 02:40am translating a2ps atm a2ps? gnu util hmm ascii 2 post script? 2/to 02:50am -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) yes neat nroff/groff did that I thought though or is this better support for it i have no idea i don't use it, i merely translate it 03:00am -:- sTeVV [Cunt@193.63.36.114] has joined #tunes -:- sTeVV has changed the topic on channel #tunes to: We love pussy -:- sTeVV [Cunt@193.63.36.114] has left #tunes [] -:- sTeVV [Cunt@193.63.36.114] has joined #tunes -:- sTeVV [Cunt@193.63.36.114] has left #tunes [] -:- topic unset by ree on #tunes .cl . hhe hmm 04:30am -:- thomas [thomas@193.217.63.152] has joined #tunes howdy 06:10am -:- SignOff smokie: #TUNES (cooooooden coden coden) -:- Ghyll [karltk@mp-217-228-243.daxnet.no] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff Ghyll: #TUNES (1) -:- Fufie [stig@coloradobille.ii.uib.no] has joined #tunes hi 08:00am -:- smoke [smoke@16dyn147.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes -:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@207-172-50-36.s290.tnt7.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com] has joined #tunes hi 11:20am sup? * AlonzoTG/#tunes greets "Salutations thomas!" :-) wokin' 11:30am -:- SignOff Fufie: #TUNES (heading home.. work sucks) -:- smoke is now known as eigenwijzie -:- eigenwijzie is now known as smoke -:- Fufie [stig@tunnel-44-12.vpn.uib.no] has joined #tunes -:- lar1 [larman@dialup-209.245.141.121.SanJose1.Level3.net] has joined #tunes -:- Muz-Zippy [muz@asn3-169.mcmail.com] has joined #tunes -:- Muz-Zippy [muz@asn3-169.mcmail.com] has left #tunes [] -:- SignOff thomas: #TUNES ([x]chat) -:- NetSplit: varley.openprojects.net split from asimov.openprojects.net [12:47pm] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [varley.openprojects.net] -:- Netjoined: varley.openprojects.net asimov.openprojects.net -:- abi [nef@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #tunes -:- smoke [smoke@16dyn147.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes -:- rares [rares@wtrb-sh4-port194.snet.net] has joined #tunes hey 01:00pm -:- SignOff Fufie: #TUNES (brb) -:- Fufie [stig@tunnel-44-12.vpn.uib.no] has joined #tunes -:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp191.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes Plundis: wow, you're alive... now all we need is core... 01:20pm eihrul: which CL do you use? cmucl now any fuss setting cmucl correctly up with emacs? i was using acl, but it's macroexpansion printing was really annoying.... i just use cmucl in normal shell -:- ult [noone@user-37kbali.dialup.mindspring.com] has joined #tunes isn't that painful when you edit files and just want it compiled into the system? (defun foo () (load "/foo")) :> I prefer C-c C-b :) (foo) isn't too bad I am trying to port some stuff to cmucl but want things set up correctly first i've been using cmucl with ilisp, but it takes some time to get used to my opinion doesn't really count though :/ why not? i've only been using common lisp for 2 months, and not even very intensively yeah, but I am mostly a newbie to cmucl myself sheesh.. I have forgotten my bespin password tried eifuF and Fuf13 ? :) upgraded my ssh and now I can't remember the ordinary password :( smoke: first passwords I tried :p i'm always very scared about storing passwords smoke: rot13 them... eihrul: :] storing them in the head is not a good idea :) ahrgr :) where is Fare when I need him? :) yeah... unfortunately, there's no fsck for brains yet... 01:40pm * eihrul/#tunes wonders why. my brain is 92% fragmented hmm.. no cvs for me then om FSCK is shit. Norton Utilities for Linuks? =\ smoke: best you can do is an rm -rf / what's wrong with fsck? fsck is great it handles everything It's shit... okay give me an argument on what's shitty about it i don't like norton utilities, and i would like it even less if it were opensource.. roughly spoken i think it's 99% gui and fsck is it's functionality -:- SignOff ult: #TUNES (Read error to ult[user-37kbali.dialup.mindspring.com]: Connection reset by peer) -:- rares [rares@wtrb-sh4-port194.snet.net] has left #tunes [] -:- ult [noone@user-38lc6dn.dialup.mindspring.com] has joined #tunes 01:50pm -:- SignOff ult: #TUNES (Leaving) seen fare abi: fare? i guess fare is sometimes looking at another screen and interruptible with a beep (/msg Fare ^G) or at http://www.tunes.org/~fare/ or connected through a crappy ISP (cybercable.fr) or pronounced Fahree or a comp.sci student (for phd) bah 02:30pm -:- aligod [aligod@98AD6289.ipt.aol.com] has joined #tunes -:- NetSplit: lackey.openprojects.net split from sterling.openprojects.net [02:52pm] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [lackey.openprojects.net] -:- Netjoined: lackey.openprojects.net sterling.openprojects.net -:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@207-172-50-36.s290.tnt7.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com] has joined #tunes wb AlonzoTG -:- rares [rares@wtrb-sh4-port194.snet.net] has joined #tunes http://sal.kachinatech.com/F/1/index.shtml very cool what is it? 03:00pm aligod: list of programming languages very! extensive, thanks rares if it doesn't have forth it's not complete ;) it's got forth + several implementations I searched google (god I could kiss you if you were a human female but you're a program) for Common Lisp hah rares I think you should quit seeking love in electronic form ;) you should have said that 3 years ago :) too late now -:- SignOff AlonzoTG: #TUNES (Ping timeout for AlonzoTG[207-172-50-36.s290.tnt7.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com]) 03:10pm rares: did google give good results? ;) YES! does a 300-pound woman make a bed sink? -:- SignOff eihrul: #TUNES (Ping timeout for eihrul[usr5-ppp191.lvdi.net]) rares: www.lisp.org is probably the best resource for CL well still I'm using elisp rares: do you have any experience in AI? none but I can out abstract anybody how so? I can model faster than I can label all the parts did you ever try to write any AI routines in code? i like the new `look' of clisp.cons.org i've started translating it to Dutch btw, if anyone cares :) not yet but then again I haven't had an opportunity to do so I know the basics tho and I hate GOFAI i'm building a sentient being in Visual C++ it's x86-like I like emergence and design based AI (like Amiga) I don't have VC++ but I can read code i like the old LISP machines dedicated to AI In fact I can read code in languages I never studied from the 70s :) -:- ult [noone@user-38lc6e5.dialup.mindspring.com] has joined #tunes rares: what's your IQ? 03:20pm Last I checked 168 the problem is alot of it is metaIQ I know about stuff about stuff smoke: translating clisp? fufie: yes the internationalized messages i wonder if IRC channels such as this just attract intelligent people or IRC is a random sampling of the world's population and people are wrong about the bell curve I can model labeless structures It takes me a while to fill in the blanks lol aligod the beall curve should be more like a wave about to break * smoke/#tunes never measured his iq but types 8.3 cps smoke: you will hate gettext pretty soon.. :-) and think "there must be a better way".. that's very common for lispers who use a C tool one side is steeper than the other fufie: i wonder; i don't dislike it yet :) aligod: I flunked the iq test I took.. didn't score a single point fufie: i've translated lynx, m4 and a2ps already fufie: i took it and received a "N/A" on the results page smoke: ok.. translate freeciv to dutch afterwards and you'll hate it.. :) fufie: why? :) smoke: you get a lot of grammar problems.. at least I did for the norwegian translation and the german translation was supposedly even worse aligod where's your code ali: I am serious.. I didn't score a single point.. got iq of 70 I think :-) I'm out of a job so I can take time to code rares: in my head rares: my LQ is quite high also, i must mention well gee that's handy heh LQ? ali: this proves that you don't need iq to use irc :-) fufie: ah yes, but i thought there would be a new system were %s-strings could be swapped around, instead of being in fixed place (if, at least, that's what you were referring to) LQ? IQ is measure of how 'white' you are. laziness quotient lol ult LOL smoke: you can rearrange the strings smoke: you can even make the "A%s" strings for A/An disappear fufie: ehm, what then is the big problem with gettext? smoke: but what you need is grammar lookup tables for words fufie: ehm i still don't understand.. you mean with monkey/monkeys becoming aap/apen ? for example (Fufie, for example, is about as 'ebonics' as you can get ;) and in languages with several kasus and forms and sexes it gets messy pretty quickly And he's not even American! ; fufie: i see what colour is ebony? white or black? ;) -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us800.javanet.com] has joined #tunes english isn't my native language -:- zarq [zarq@9dyn212.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes oi fufie: do you know of a better system than gettext then? fufie: be it for common lisp or any other language smoke: I have one planned :-) 03:30pm a mulit-language system :-) both natural and programming languages sounds scary it is :) i'm very sceptical about such things but of course i haven't the faintest idea what it is, and am starting to wonder what to be sceptical about the meaning for `things' is about the only thing not often seen in programming languages.. except for the Paranoid Programming Language - PPL where gettext solves 60% of the job.. I hope to raise it to 80% does it imply hard work on the writer of the first messages? not really but probably some more effort then it will not work, guaranteed :) the structure of the sentence is very useful i think putting _() around texts is about as hard as you can make it for the occasional programmer :) people who are serious about locale support will probably do some more hm that may be true could you give an example? actually I don't see why features can't be adequately represented without muckiong up code rares: is that a remark about gettext or do i just don't follow? the simple sentence "%s has %s %s" someone who cares will never write printf(_("user%s"), users>1?"s":""); smoke: tourette's syndrome :) zarq: in common lisp there's a format-code for setting pluralforms based on integers zarq: it seemed pretty stupid to me should be "%s %s %s" :-) smoke; is that in the .po? fufie ;) fufie: lol think of the english sentence "he has a dog" zarq: no in the common lisp function (format) which works about as printf() does in C it fits the first zarq: (it's probably a macro, not a function - i still can't tell) smoke: Well, format is a lot more powerful. -:- hcf has changed the topic on channel #tunes to: TUNES, Free Reflective Computing System the first part "he" should be translated correctly.. ie a %s -:- pyro [tcn@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #tunes the "has" has to be chosen based on the first word and the last part ult: yes, but i thought the special thing for concatenating the `s' seemed a little useless outside the english language and the last part "a dog" should be a translation of it's own.. one needs the sentence structure to translate between western european languages fufie: but i suppose there are oriental languages in which "%s" would've suited better for the character which states that he has a dog, a chicken and a small barn :) I don't care about the oriental languages :-) actually I'm ready to write an all encompassing function called reverse or inverse because i'm getting dizzy (or is it ditzy?) with the formartting required it's not that I don't understand it it's that I have to specify it everywhere I need the feature things get crazy 03:40pm fufie; ever heard of that universal machine-readable language that is supposed to act as an intermediate in a translation from any natural language into any other? fufie: lol. but i think a simple solution would be to omit `%s'es in strings as much as possible, except for special cases in which items are just listed outside grammar zarq: I have seen a few attempts on them.. zarq/fufie: there was a new one created last year, wasn't it? fufie; the one i'm referring to is developed by the UN univ. near Tokyo iirc I think soon they'll give up and invent newspeak it's easier to translate when there are few wer words smoke: what one needs is arguments which are typed and can be used in a small DSL to write the translation rares, you mean esperanto? :) human language may well be a spoiler for information technology zarq ois newspeak of course, everyone could start speaking english. esperanto is ya natural language.. I think zarq meant a common language for both programming and natural languages zarq = esperanto even but first i'll get some sleep -:- SignOff pyro: #TUNES (pyro has no reason) well zarq: but those who speak english seldom agree themselves esperanto is ok English suCkS Horrid horrid language. :) printf(good %s\n",localize(partofday)); zarq: ie there are often english and american locales because the americans can't spell ESPERANTO is horrible poetry is impossible recursive acronyms are impossible -:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (z!) night smoke fufie; sure I think the boat with the spelling books got lost in the atlantic =P the canadians seem to have one of them Fufie -- no, it's the damn brits and Canadians who can't speel! :) note the `speel' :) even for a small country like Norway we have two languages :) fufie; yeah that's silly =) mostly spelling differences zarq: Psst. That *was* intentional ;) ult;) of course any language where good is the opposite of bad (which is a lie good/bad are subjective, only objectives can have opposites and good / bad can only have opposite meanings in a conext provided the context is objective) good is the opposite of bad? Hmm good and bad are both adjectives happy is the opposite of sad depressed is the opposite of excited Eh? bad is a michael jackson album I think _and_ depressed is the opposite of happy good is just god mispelt ult you're wrong good is an effect and god is just God but they ran out of ink being good is a proverb ;) capital letters were a tremendous amount of work in the dark ages you cannot say that not having something that causes good means it causes bad took at least half a page fufie; only the first on a page unless the monk in question was near-sighted and draw each letter the size of a page and something that causes better than good is tangential not MORE than that which only causes good Fufie: Hmm that's true but its a bit of exaguration ;) draw=drew good/bad have discrete levels not integer values 03:50pm zarq: they made very erotic drawings somethimes when they did their capital letters and then the prior found out.. capital punishment (I am tired..) fufie; that's the dark ages' pornography Capital? Decapitation for drawing a nudie picture? no it's erotica ult in the dark ages all sex was evil not just homo wot about babies then =P we've improved * ult/#tunes grinz I know. Church sucks. babies had to go to christ.. let the small children come to me that was only in service of god or sth Come to Daddy Aphex twin ruloes Erm Aphex Twin? ult: w/o Church there would be no lambda calculus and no lisp techno feakout music he makes his own music software Fufie say it ain't so how does the church affect lisp? rares; do you know Aphex Twin/Powerpill Pacman? :) hmmm zarq never heard it it rules ;) * zarq/#tunes has 5 remixes of it he should have called it Powerpac Pillman Fufie: Different church, you bum. =) not the Church of St. Ignucius 04:00pm You know what? I'm going to make a distribution of Emacs + a book deal heh blah really I should why? you wanna -write- a book or just distro someone elses work I call it packaging I mean to agreesively publicize aren't emacs advocates doing enough? funny how the firssst time it hits stores is at version 20 it's not reaching the newbies the Net is a sea not a highway the net is a demolition derby the net is the net this is a good song the net is a lame movie the net is ult's soapbox true true... 04:10pm -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- aligod [aligod@98AD6289.ipt.aol.com] has left #tunes [] -:- Kaufmann [newbie@dial490.infolink.com.br] has joined #tunes FOO! Amazing... my ghost finally died! -:- SignOff lar1: #TUNES (Read error to lar1[dialup-209.245.141.121.SanJose1.Level3.net]: Connection reset by peer) 04:20pm doh * rares/#tunes falls over ghosts? here? yeah cute ones? well i'm out like casper? -:- SignOff rares: #TUNES ([x]chat) no.. run 'startx' or something #wrong for a few weeks now there has been a ghost BitchX process running in my office's system, logged on openprojects.net with the nick Kaufmann. Thanks to this apparently unkill9able process, I have had to use Kaufmann` whenever I tried to get in here. you can use ghost to kill him don't you think I tried? :P and it didn't work? nope 04:30pm evidently something happened at Amadeus (the main server of the Fluid Dynamics lab), because within three minutes I received all three emails that I had sent from the office to my home box almost a month ago, and now that I tried to login to openprojects.net, the ghost is suddenly no longer. fluid dynamics? yep is that a study in "how does alcohol work in people"? I work at the Fluid Dynamics lab of the Institute for Pure and Applied Mathematics LOL Fufie my kind of place :-) (the alcohol thingie.. not the math thingie :) heh not really... most of our work is used by oil companies, actually there are a shitload of applications. they should have the money for expensive liquor yes :-) fluid dynamics is an important study in Norway as well.. we have some oil here and a lot of pipes fufie; and water yes especially here in rainy Bergen :-) Is that like Candice Bergen? * Kaufmann/#tunes ducks * Fufie/#tunes smiles overbearingly 04:40pm hum. who knows a fast algorithm to find a random prime < 2^n ? hrrrrm mrt? url? :) the Miller-Rabin test, IIRC abi, mrt lemme look it up abi probably doesn't know it there was something about this in the last DDJ he should've said something -:- water [water@tnt-10-248.tscnet.net] has joined #tunes yo anyone ready to talk shop? water, sure sure :) zarq: anything in particular? zarq, try to find it on the online version of the HAC, or simply do a search for "Miller-Rabin Test" water, yes: [01:42] who knows a fast algorithm to find a random prime < 2^n ? *random* prime, eh? actually, i meant tunes-related by "shop" yes, any prime. any ain't random -:- air [brand@p0wer.qzx.com] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff Kaufmann: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Kaufmann[dial490.infolink.com.br]) well, unless anyone has tunes stuff to talk about, i'll bbl -:- SignOff water: #TUNES (Leaving) kaufmann.. it's a test i don't know how densely packed primes are when n~=128, but it seems to me it will take me quite long to find a prime that way 04:50pm `that way' = picking a number at random and increasing until prime hmmmmmmmmmm 05:00pm Is there a way to determine how many primes are between 0 and n? yes, calculate all of them and count 'em :) 05:10pm other than that ;) if so then its easy 05:20pm 6469693231 is prime :) 11 is a prime -:- SignOff ult: #TUNES (Read error to ult[user-38lc6e5.dialup.mindspring.com]: Connection reset by peer) 05:40pm it is? wow! -:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp213.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes 05:50pm -:- NetSplit: irc.linux.com split from sterling.openprojects.net [05:52pm] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [irc.linux.com] -:- Netjoined: irc.linux.com sterling.openprojects.net -:- Plundis [plundis@130.238.23.252] has joined #tunes -:- abi [nef@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #tunes -:- Fufie [stig@tunnel-44-12.vpn.uib.no] has joined #tunes -:- zarq [zarq@9dyn212.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes Test passed. The probability that 1387951639487562398450238659128765987236951624809756917659187259861695761287569182841 is prime is at least 0.999999999999090505298e0 Running this test took 1.079000e+01 seconds. hmmm you can't try anything larger? :) sure :) uh-oh this is going to take loooong :) sure, but its worth it... trying to find a prime is definately not something you want to do runtime, anyway it's crunching on a number for over a minute now good chance it qualifies Test passed. The probability that 12058172064358761329485029185013874065128465093284059183206458104985029843065129865091283065913620592316805986321958610329650291386509126059812609560921056102465198265091205102508165918723617235601823605187263405192850836450983764150912304927340981237403146059218347012983841281 is prime is at least 0.999999999999090505298e0 Running this test took 2.742900e+02 seconds. on a 486 dx2 06:10pm