IRC log started Tue Dec 14 00:00:01 1999 [msg(TUNES)] permlog 1999.1214 -:- SignOff tmf: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- SignOff water: #TUNES (The Tao went that way!) -:- SignOff td: #TUNES (td has no reason) -:- SignOff smkl: #TUNES (Ping timeout for smkl[glubimox.yok.utu.fi]) -:- smkl [sami@glubimox.yok.utu.fi] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff smkl: #TUNES (Ping timeout for smkl[glubimox.yok.utu.fi]) -:- smkl [sami@glubimox.yok.utu.fi] has joined #tunes -:- hcf [nef@209.94.148.155] has joined #tunes -:- rares [rares@wtrb-sh5-port22.snet.net] has joined #tunes gakuk! 08:10am -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) * zarq/#tunes is back from being away: trug -:- SignOff zarq: #TUNES (Reconnecting) -:- zarq [zarq@9dyn204.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff smkl: #TUNES (changing servers) -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us938.javanet.com] has joined #tunes hmm.. lots of OSes mentioned in comp.os.research.. any not mentioned in tunes:review:os? I think so.. will check 10:10am yes.. couldn't find some of them who is in charge of the page? not sure how do i submit a contribution to the reviews section? post to review@tunes.org i thought you did everything trough cvs? hcf: I can forward the news-article to review.. zarq: the review page is in cvs thought so.. but anonymous has no cvs write access? no i see then i'll mail it (when it's written) :) article forwarded 10:20am -:- SignOff rares: #TUNES ([x]chat) -:- smoke [smoke@16dyn233.delft.casema.net] has joined #tunes hi 10:50am hi 11:00am -:- mibin [mibin@62.11.103.59] has joined #tunes -:- smkl [sami@glubimox.yok.utu.fi] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff mibin: #TUNES ([x]chat) -:- binEng [Anders@j141.ryd.student.liu.se] has joined #tunes hoy binEng hi hcf 12:00pm binEng: anything new? Well... not really. Yourself, maybe? nope 12:10pm hum 01:20pm how does one initialize random seed in clisp? smoke: http://ki.cs.tu-berlin.de/clisp/cltl/clm/node133.html -:- mibin [mibin@62.11.104.24] has joined #tunes hcf; thanks! 01:40pm -:- SignOff mibin: #TUNES (Ping timeout for mibin[62.11.104.24]) -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Ping timeout for hcf[me-portland-us938.javanet.com]) -:- mibin [mibin@62.11.105.10] has joined #tunes -:- Downix [down@d-gnaps-193.ici.net] has joined #tunes -:- eihrul [lee@usr5-ppp135.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes -:- lar1 [LarMan@dialup-209.244.106.18.SanJose1.Level3.net] has joined #tunes Hey lo 'lar 'lo lar heh :) 03:00pm Deck the halls with penguin power! -:- SignOff smkl: #TUNES (Ping timeout for smkl[glubimox.yok.utu.fi]) huh? 03:10pm lar1: but umm, that's a christmas thing... which infers christianity :P hmm, no it is an xmas song it just infers xianity yes :P eihrul: It was in the latest LinuxMall flyer, and I thought it cute. No offence intended gah, marketing gimmicks are disgusting, not cute :P hehe -:- smkl [sami@glubimox.yok.utu.fi] has joined #tunes But this one sounded cool! but its disgusting in principle.... just remember Yes, I never said it wasn't hmmm, finally someone posted on the tunes list... Woo Hoo! -:- SignOff Downix: #TUNES ([BX] iTs bEttEr tO bUrN oUt tHaN tO fAdE aWaY) somebody did? posted now? yes its amazing no? indeed Was it a decent post? I guess I'm far down on the mlist yah, it was pointing out links not on OS Review subproject I posted that to tunes-review earlier this morning that doesn't count! eihrul: Ah, this is somthing I need to see 03:20pm eihrul: Where can I get access to this? eh its on the tunes mlist Fufie: you're the stig guy? :) wow heh false alarm since you posted it, doesn't mean jack :) eihrul: Is the log archived or somthing? I am not subscribed it seems I posted it to review@tunes.org lar: yes.. check the tunes web site Fufie: Ah, ok see at the end of the raw archive eih: and somebody needs to mail to those lists :p Fufie: sure, but we already do our part by being #tunes groupies t mail has an higher latency than irc but all the 100 people on the mailing-lists need to see some activity * eihrul/#tunes ponders. i think i've seen pebble before nemesis and l4 definitely... i don't think people *haven't* heard of those it wasn't on the list.. nor was go! Lava i've heard of go i have not 03:30pm more papers for me to read though :) ie a useful post :p depends on what you define as useful btw: is there any oint in having separate content on the wiki wiki web? s/oint/point/ -:- Downix [down@d-gnaps-117.ici.net] has joined #tunes it's downright silly to update material in both cvs and wiki speedos? i think speedos is at http://www.informatik.uni-ulm.de/rs/staff/projects/SPEEDOS/SPEEDOS_E.html poorly chosen name IMO :) could be trademarked too heh Fufie: are there any papers on go? I don't know, never really checked a lot segmentation? sheesh 03:40pm -:- lar1 is now known as lar_away -:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (z! bye) heb je morgen middag nog college? wrong channel hmm.. dutch jup are you able to make sense of it? hey that Charm URL you gave isn't working :) middag=midday? morgen=the morning? I know norwegian, english and german and dutch is sortof a cross between the three charm url? yes morgen middag = tomorrow in the afternoon.. so yes, you are right at least for a big part CHARM (http://os.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/Charm/) I just forwarded the mail.. I didn't check all urls :) heh, i am totally wrong mibin: you got the `middag' part right, didn't you middag=dinner ahh fufie ;) abi, middag is dinner agg speedos has no papers! in norway, you don't eat big meals for lunch, like you do in e.g. france, do you? no, lunch is cold here eih: checking that url now in norway, they only eat raw fishes fufie: right... i had a sm if you're gonna post url's to tunes list hmm, i dont thnk i am in france they better have research papers behind them! :P * Fufie/#tunes gives eih a bonk over the head :) blub because marketing descriptions don't do me any good stupid keymap smkl: yes.. it's a thing whalers share.. we and the japanese :) you norwegians still hunt whales? * eihrul/#tunes ponders. speedos guy claims to have invented persistent virtual memory gah that and no papers, is offensive 04:10pm mibin: only some norwegians far north.. and we only let them do it or they will rebel and be a pain in the arse for the rest of us fufie :) Is anyone in charge of updating OSes.html? maybe all these URLs should be sent to review@tunes.org ... yea, far north norwegians live in an hostile environment and may be dangerous =) mibin: it's better to let them hunt whales and stay up there instead of moving into the cities, get drunk and get violent in the taxi queues.. :) fufie: why not let them form a rebellian force for an independant state of the Sami? send the taxis hunt whales Fufie: then he claims to have made combined segmentation and paging.... Save the Whales! Collect the whole set! zarq: the whalers are not fond of the samis.. save the whalers! collect the whole set! zarq: they're less popular with whalers than pampered "southeners" ahh, so whale hunting may be a way to get out of alcohol addictment lol fufie: oh i always thought it were the sami that hunted for whales mibin: they bring along enough booze on their boats... don't you worry. :) Norweigans are cruel seal hunters! We got it on tape! The one who documented it had to flee to Sweden (forgot his name) zarq: the sami hunt for reindeer.. that was a toucgh sport for some time but then they tamed them and now it's easier to hunt them ;) bin: odd lindbergh.. poor fellow yup -:- beholder [beholder@ppp-199.m2-4.sub.ican.net] has joined #tunes hey there beh Hey :) hey Fancy meeting you here ;) Fufie: So what was the story on Odd? fufie: hehehe hunting your cavia seems to be a pretty hard task if i may believe the stories i've heard ;)) Hey Downix zarq: cavia? fufie; so hunting reindeer when they're captured could be harder if they're captured uh. that didn't make much sense. Hunting Reindeer? bin: I am not really sure, it is hard to get the true story. what is known however was that he filmed some of the seal hunt and it is also said that he directed the hunters to do stuff, but I don't know. a lot of bad blood in that case and the seal hunters aren't really sympathetic so I guess their terror drove him off :-/ Fufie: mmm, lava has many papers next century, we'll have man hunters, to reduce over-population on earth not so good for man... Fufie: I don't remember much of it anymore.. must've been a while ago. FareWell: I'd believe that, and they train people with multiplayer deathmatch internet games :) zarq: I am not too familiar with the samis, they live really far north and some of them have reindeers fufie: where do you live? bin: he seems to have found a quiet place in sweden and I am glad he has gotten a place where he is not bothered by stupid people zarq: Bergen 19 And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men. (i'm sort of a bit familiar with the topography of Norway) 04:20pm me too ;) fufie: ah i've been there. fufie: it rained ;)) zarq: hehe :) hmm is bergen near hamar? mibin: no near Mysen? Mysen? :) zarq: by most standards it is the coziest and most beautiful town in all of Norway mibin: no fufie: i'll have to agree. well mysen its a small city i think the first men that need to die are those who use uncompressed postscript mysen is a few houses that stand close to each other.. Fufie: I heard all Norweigans were morons! ;) Fufie: heh bin: trust no one :p well i dont even trust myself bineng ;) "Please sit and relax while Windows 98 installs on your computer." PANIC!!! lol! bin: the relationship between Norway and sweden have been better than the last few days :) haha geography of norway: there's the part where it's damn too cold, and the part where it's even worse. binEng: Still going eh? ;) heh Fufie: Can you confirm that Norway is the last Soviet state?! ;) fufie: i must say though that i like the attitude of the swedes more fufie: but i'm only an ignorant foreigner :) Hey, I helped a friend install w98 on his computer. After a 90' failed attempt, a 180' successful one. what is w98 bin: :p lol -:- SignOff lar_away: #TUNES (Ping timeout for lar_away[dialup-209.244.106.18.SanJose1.Level3.net]) -:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@216-164-128-23.s23.tnt1.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com] has joined #tunes bin: I'll admit we have a few lousy politicians but rosengren seems to be the dumbest swede to be found and that is no small feat :) mibin: something I'd prefer never to have seen I lost 1d6 points of SANity trying to install it. Fufie: Lol. I wouldn't bet my money on that, though. :) You should see our minister of schools. Or maybe rather not. bin: lol :) so i assume Norway has a kinda pinko government FareWell: I work with it on a daily basis, it's not hard to install... it just takes forever... and requires many driver upgrades once it's in... then it requires all sorts of expensive software to be installed... then it crashes. Nothing wrong with that, it's a learning experience ;) mibin: not really, they're at the moment a bunch of wanking christians who hate gays and colour tv and the net. beholder: Well thanks for all encouragment binEng: Hehe, well you want your games don't you!? ;) i am a christian and i hate the first two but love the third mibin: And rumor has it they are Norweigans as well. 04:30pm bin: the gays? :) bahh binEng: Without Half-Life how will we learn to defend ourselves when the government collapes, and the world turns to anarchy... I wanna be a tribal leader :) umm mibin: you would feel like an atheist next to the christians in the government.. that's mum back to the kitchen, gays are bad, and so on.. Great, the installation crashed heh binEng: WTF is wrong with your system? binEng: Did you delete the windows and program files directory? beholder: kinda, yes. It maybe didn't crash exactly, it hung when trying to reboot binEng: Hmm... that's very strange. Or very normal, depending on how you look at it binEng: Weren't yougetting an older machine and putting a nix on it to do your internet stuff? beholder: yes.. haven't done that yet, though binEng: When you said you sorta deleted the windows and program files dir, which one did you not delete? beh: w98 *is* very hard to install on SCSI. I saved some programs, but nothing the installation should care about oh, and what about that LASTDRIVE=E automatically inserted by who knows? FareWell: Never had a problem... was it some kind of oddball scsi card and device? no, all very standard stuff. lastdrive=e?? my friend would have *never* *ever* found how to fix that himself FareWell: Make your own boot disks to install windows :) Or better yet, just copy the cab files and setup.exe to a directory on the hard drive. I guess your just spoiled with your *easy* to install Linux'es... hehe ;) 04:40pm -:- core [core@core.suntech.fr] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff mibin: #TUNES (Ping timeout for mibin[62.11.105.10]) hi hello hey beh, what's up, long time no talk.. I saw you put unios to sleep core: wow.... core: Wow, someone noticed the page update :) hi eihrul :) -:- lar_away [LarMan@dialup-209.245.135.74.SanJose1.Level3.net] has joined #tunes -:- lar_away is now known as lar1 beholder: of course :) core: Yeah, put the sucker to bed, I told bin I'd do it a while back but didn't get around to it till a few days ago core: hey hi lar1 Hey lar fyi, I actually saw that too So what's new around here? Anyone develop and OS yet ;) binEng: Hmm I guess I'm the only one that doesn't look at the page often ;) core! binEng: Any complaints about the wording of the message? FareWell: I belive review links should go to me. Unless core would rather take them? kestudviendoudoudidon? farewell: plein lar1: do you integrate stuff from review@ ? beholder: Nah, looks good. You can help me compiling a modest list of bloated/buggy/populistic/intruding Windows programs. Great fun! :) Observe: MS programs are out of the game. farewell: i saw that apparently tril and lar1 are intending to take over the OS review, sigh. Yes and so are office suites bin: isn't that ls -R on a windows-partition? FareWell: Not as of now. Is there sufficent traffic there to justify that? Correction, I guess any platform will do. Fufie: huh? bin: the list of bloated windows apps Fufie: DIR /s... , but close enough ;) Fufie: heh, nah Fufie: I think any linux distro is bloatware. What do you think? core: not if you impose yourself as maintainer. farewell: i thought i've been maintaining this page for the last year. sure. Looks good to me. if it's revamped without discussing it at all, i'm not going to bother maintaining it for sure. now, CVS allow concurrent modification. Need for maintainer is only in presence of conflict. beh: I am quite fond of rh 5.2 and I am thinking of ugrading to debian.. I have around 45G hd-space so I don't really worry lar1: do you intend a revamp? lar1: up to now, core has been an ok maintainer for OSes.html FareWell: Yes, I thought it was knowen. (TRIL, HCF and LAR1 plan on redesigning the reviewproject) i don't want to whine, but i don't like to learn things by parsing logs. it's an OK method for learning that someone's been looking for me, but definitely not when something i work on is going to be changed. lar1: oh, if it's the general redesign, that's ok. we have half a dozen mailing lists for that purpose. FareWell: Yes, thats all it is Fufie: I was thinking of red hat in particular... ;) Debian is, I think, the nicest linux distro, but I think I'd rather just a kernel and boot loader and some basic utils... then I'll put what I want on. I heard someone here was working on that beh: I thought tthat was called slakware ;) core: that's a redesign of the whole review thing, that doesn't change maintainers per se. just an expected improvement in infrastructure isn't more reviews needed more than redeisgn? farewell: well, that's still doesn't prevent people from talking about it first. Fufie: concurrent aspects. 04:50pm Fufie: Yes it is :) Until the A set got too big ;) I remember when the A set was one disk... that was the bad ol days when Linux was less stable than windows... core: the thing's been told about for long, but since no great step was made yet, no one felt to announce more of it farewell: tril vaguely told about wrapping the thing in a database but i thought the issue had been dropped. i didn't know lar1 was going to revamp all. core: like all of tunes, things are not dead, just dormant fufie: New reviews will come with the redesign it is not dead, which can eternally lie beh: back in 94 I think I installed slackware ad used it for a long time but it was a mess to maintain well, i'd rather have the OS page transformed last then. core: It may well be core: If you have a strong opionion I will do it last lar: how about starting with the review part? core: news about release of clem? i don't have a strong opinion, i just have a strong feeling of being useless. Fufie: It was. You had to impose your own structure. I use FBSD now, and have been quite happy with it thus far. farewell: blah :) :( Fufie: A timeline restructure was done and I belive uis are first now hum. Gotta goto sleep * FareWell/#Tunes goto 3053 beh: uis? binEng: How are things going now? lar: uis? core: You will only be useless if you make you self so Fufie: User Interfaces beh: FBSD looks ok, and I had a go with OBSD on my 486 but I guess I am too used to GNU/Linux by now lar1: feeling useless as not being informed of things at all. lar: imho content is more important Fufie: Thats why we plan to add more reviws in the proccess. We need to make it easy to do so first beh: too bad sgi gave up irix, an intel port would've been nice afaik, putting the review in a database shouldn't modify the current contents. lar: it is easy now.. checkout, write and commit not per se, anyway Fufie: Never used irix, but I did enjoy Solaris (please no flames, it was easy to use ;) Fufie: And it will be easier still hey, I used a N64. No flames: was easy to use. * Fufie/#tunes gives beholder a bonk over the head.. Slowaris is bad :p I even used a bed. Even easier to use * FareWell/#Tunes really goto 3053 * Fufie/#tunes thinks he should head for bed as well sigh. core: Look. I am sorry I didn't inform you. You aren't useless, nor will you be. You can help if you whish. In fact, we would really appreciate your help lar: it would've been nice if things were xml-ified and structured Fufie: Solaris is bad... but the machine it was on had a beautiful 20" monitor, and a neat looking optical mouse,etc. It was more the experice that made me like the system. I didn't buy the damn thing so I didn't care about the fact that it was $20,000 CDN :) Fufie: Does phpified and structured work too? :) php breaks with any kind of esthetique it's butt ugly ;) Esthetique? but practical lar1: sure; i don't ask anything else than maintaining the page I've been updating for a year and being informed beforehand before you do any changes to it besides fixing links (what fare does on a regular basis, and which is all fine). i don't think that's asking for the moon. I want the moon beholder: ack, you should've tried irix instead.. and my redhat comes with a 19" monitor, 256 M RAM and 45G disk.. which isn't too bad core: Its not. And I will notify you before the page is changed. beholder: just make sure you don't try to reach it with vxworks :) lar1: let me rephrase: please inform me so i can change the page myself. core: But the review project as a whole will offer a sort of open-maintaining system in which any TUNES member may add/modify/etc the database 05:00pm Fufie: Wow, nice system. I'm using FBSD on my laptop (13" TFT, 2.5G hdd). Maybe my experience could be better too :) lar1: yes, about 35 people wanted to do that over the years. core: Well, testing will be going on at http://www.tunes.org/~lar1/review. If you would like to be the one to upload the page, thats alright. lar1: i would. * Fufie/#tunes gives beholder 300 XP for good role-playing and interest in Un*x.. did that help? :) core: Ok, when I finish I will give the page to you so you can press the button ;) lar1: we have an understanding issue, here. lar1: i keep adding links to the page. once in a while, i commit it. Fufie: Well, 300XP doesn't go far when yer a 28th level mage, but thanks anyways ;) lar1: if you hand me a page, it will be outdated, and you will have to redo it. hehe lar1: if you want to redo the work several times, sure. otherwise, you can let me enter the data into the database. core: You CAN enter data in to the DB... _thats the whole idea_! core: I will hand you the page that interfaces to the DB lar1: so i don't understand your comment about pressing a button. core: Meaning I will give you the page to interface to the db and you can commit it Hey, I'm not sure if you guys can help, but I'm looking to set a company up with some sort of shared e-mail system and a visual calendar system, is there anything free that would work for that? lar1: sure. beholder: there are plenty of cgi scripts for that online (like tcbworks, not the best tho :).. look on freshmeat :) beholder: Workspot? (I think thats the name) tcbworks does the job but requires a specific version of msql for one that we specifically have to keep around, which is very upsetting :) beholder: Err, I ment workspot has done somthing similar to what you decribed beh: for a lowly cleric of the order of st.ignucius 300XP is a lot.. core: So are we cool now? core? rumour has it core is developing a kernel-less, component-based OS, Clementine, and the XCOM file format (http://xcom.tunes.org) geesh! hey mr. downes :) * Downix/#tunes wakes up! hey! downix: i handed your info over to the suits. something will come out of it :) core: Alright. This will be most productive. downix: i hope so, it's a neat project * Downix/#tunes is still waiting the final specification from my hardware guy downix: sure, no hurry. you just know what we're up to now :) Alright lar1: is that important ? core: Right now our sound arch is a bit of a headache. Trying to make it as simple and effective as possible downix: don't know if you can demo on x86 or run an x86 simulator on mips or directly do the port (that might be quick, i have no clue tho) downix: make it sound (pff, bad pun :-) core: Porting to MIPS is easy. There are x86->MIPS asm translators core: Yes Downix: What are you working on? core: But a demo on an x86 would work downix: well, that might go quick then lar1: Extendible integrated computer system