IRC log started Thu Oct 14 00:00:01 1999
[msg(TUNES)] permlog 1999.1014
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<Kaufmann> Shalom!
<Fare3053> salaam!
<Kaufmann> Why, thankee!
<Kaufmann> How are you, Faré?
09:30am
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-:- Kaufmann is now known as Semantics
<Semantics> :)
09:40am
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* Fare/#Tunes goes to a course...
<smkl> what course?
<Semantics> A golf course... d'oh :)
10:00am
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<Zr> if anyone is awake, the link to the synthesis kernel has moved, it is now at http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~library/TR-repository/reports/reports-1992/cucs-039-92.ps.gz
<Semantics> wtf is that?
<Zr> dead link is on http://www.tunes.org/Review/OSes.html
<Zr> "the first of modern OSes that dynamically generated code at runtime"
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10:40am
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* Semantics/#tunes is leaving now... bye!
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<Fare> Zr: ack
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11:00am
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<hcf> hoy beh
<Beholder> Hey Hcf :)
<hcf> have u talked w/ any unios.org ppl yet?
<Beholder> Only BinEng today why so?
<hcf> huh?
<Beholder> Oh
<Beholder> Sorry yes, the .org people
<Beholder> Yeah, we're all good buddies now :)
-:- SignOff Fare: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Fare[d026.paris-121.cybercable.fr])
<hcf> so whats gonna happen, anything?
<Beholder> Nope, they get to use the name all they wish, as do I :)
02:50pm
<hcf> u tell em about the tunes project, the mlist, and/or #tunes?
<Beholder> Yep, at least one is interested in the Tunes concept and are interested
<hcf> some new blood for the channel would be nice
<Beholder> Yeah... some new blood in Tunes would be nice...
<Beholder> hcf: Do you have any ideas for an OS?
<hcf> yes, but i dont share 'em
<Beholder> hcf: Fear of being shot down?  
<hcf> not really
<Beholder> hcf: ... or they're so good and revolutionary that we wouldn't understand (NeoArrows ;)
<hcf> just my way only applies to me
<Beholder> ahh
<Beholder> fair enough then.  I wish you lick if you ever persue the idea
<Beholder> lick = luck... I'm not in the mood to lick anything right now ;)
03:00pm
<Beholder> hcf:  Do you work, or go to school?
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<hcf> whys it matter?
<Beholder> hcf: I'm just curious.  Sorry.
03:10pm
* hcf/#tunes is away: (afk)
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<eihrul> abi: seen core
<abi> core was last seen on IRC 16 days, 57 seconds ago, saying: what's up? did you write more of EMK? [Tue Sep 28 15:20:31 1999]
<eihrul> abi: seen water
<abi> water was last seen on IRC 4 days, 3 hours, 5 minutes and 46 seconds ago, saying: s/wrok/work [Sun Oct 10 12:15:44 1999]
<Beholder> abi: seen eihrul
<abi> eihrul was last seen on IRC 1 minutes and 10 seconds ago, saying: abi: seen water [Thu Oct 14 15:21:30 1999]
<Beholder> heh
<eihrul> abi: seen beholder
<abi> beholder was last seen on IRC 44 seconds ago, saying: Ok, I'll be attentive now :) [Thu Oct 14 15:23:07 1999]
<eihrul> abi isn't doing its job
<hcf> abi is on #tunes and #tpp
<eihrul> oh
<eihrul> abi: seen hcf
<abi> hcf was last seen on IRC 53 seconds ago, saying: abi is on #tunes and #tpp [Thu Oct 14 15:24:36 1999]
<Beholder> Why so?
<hcf> why so what?
<eihrul> abi needs split personalities then
<Beholder> Oh, he said she wasn't working, and I didn't realize it was because she was returning stuff from #tpp
<hcf> perhaps i'l change the seen msg to say which channel
<Beholder> hcf: Sounds good :)
<hcf> and no (b4 anyone demands it) i wont make it so u can ask 'abi: seen hcf on #tunes'
03:30pm
<hcf> (and get channel specific results)
<Beholder> hehe :)  I'm not interested in Abi's extra capabilities, just that cool dictionary thing she does
<hcf> anyway
* hcf/#tunes is away: (afk)
03:40pm
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<Beholder> wb
04:10pm
* eihrul/#tunes wonders what this UniOS thing is on freshmeat.
<eihrul> and why they're calling a single 20 line file of assembly a 1.0 beta
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<eihrul> or is it just freshmeat humor?
<Beholder> Hehe... it's a Joke program
<Beholder> It's not mine though
<Beholder> It's the unios.org ppl's
<Beholder> UniOS.org is not affilated with UniOS Project
<eihrul> you sure? :)
<eihrul> they're both kinda vaporware at this point, no?
<Beholder> Hehe, yep that's true :)
<eihrul> well, actually, they have 20 lines of code
<Beholder> I'm begining to think I'm a vaporware programmer :)  I'll have to put that on my resume ;)
<Beholder> Yeah, and their OS works perfectly... it does everything they want it to do
04:40pm
* eihrul/#tunes ponders...
<Beholder> It's entire purpose is to boot up and display a message "SCSI device not found"
<eihrul> vaporware programmers would always make perfect creations
<eihrul> since they'd never break
<eihrul> they'd have absolutely no bugs
<eihrul> they'd never crash :)
<Beholder> Yes they would.  And their ideas cannot be refuted.
* Beholder/#tunes thinks he'll write a book:  "Learn how to program Vaporware in 21 days"
<eihrul> you could use Tunes as a case study
<eihrul> you could make it like a Tanenbaum book
<Beholder> Not just Tunes, many projects are like us.
<eihrul> full of lots of dense information, that effectively says nothing
<Beholder> Hehe :)
<eihrul> then write a sequel, that uses the same first 600 pages
<eihrul> then has 5 pages of new info tacked on
<Beholder> Hehe, well, would you publish it?
<Beholder> I'm willing to write it :)
<eihrul> don't know of any publishers, plus i'm just a youngin'
<Beholder> So what vaporware have you written lately?
<eihrul> sadly
<eihrul> i've implemented at least part of most of my designs
<eihrul> i haven't made much vaporware lately
<eihrul> although i planned a tetris clone once, that never frutitioned :)
<Beholder> Yeah I had one of those too :)
<Beholder> Mine was almost done... did it in VB.  It was quite good
<Beholder> But with VB there was speed issues... I should look into how to optimize it...
* Beholder/#tunes want's to write another book: "Beholder's Inferal Quest:  A how-to guide for optimizing Visual Basic"
04:50pm
<eihrul> indeed
* Beholder/#tunes is a VB programmer by profession... knows VB... understands VB...  and because of this CAN KILL THE BEAST!!.... hehe
<IMPO> everyone i've ever talked to says vb eats shit to put it bluntly
<Beholder> IMPO: It does... but it's a "cprporate golden-boy"
<IMPO> bleh
<IMPO> who would learn a language just so they could make money off it
<IMPO> that is absurd
<Beholder> IMPO:  That's all it's good for... what other reason would ppl use it?
<IMPO> uh
<IMPO> to create
<IMPO> because it is knowledge
<IMPO> i did not take computer science as a major in school to get a job
<IMPO> i got it to learn as much as i could in the field
<eihrul> i think he's referring to visual basic in particular
<eihrul> not his general outlook on all languages he learns
<IMPO> well if you only pick something up to become a pegboy for corporate lust that is your decision
<Beholder> Yeah.  I learn other langs for knowlege... I'm not gonna make money off Python or Lisp ;)
<IMPO> you could
<Beholder> IMPO:  Business needs to be here... business needs solutions to their problems.  I provide that as a profession.  I see no issue with what tool I use, so long as they are willing to pay for it.
<IMPO> and when companies eventually stop using microsoft products
<IMPO> where will visual basic be
<IMPO> and all those people who only know that one language
<IMPO> and anyone who does not think microsoft will eventually go down
<IMPO> i remind them of standard oil
<Beholder> IMPO: They're screwed... and it's their own fault for not expanding their knowlege...
05:00pm
<IMPO> good
<IMPO> i hope they are all unemployed 20 years down the line
<Beholder> IMPO:  That's not nice to say... some people just don't know any better... it's not their fault it's the "MS Marketing Machine" that's done it to em...
05:10pm
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<fire> beholder: long time no see (you remember hickserv)
<Beholder> hmm... air, fire and water... all we need is an earth now I guess
<Beholder> Yep I do, hey hick :)
<Fare> what happened to standard oil?
<fire> uh it was broken up
<Beholder> Fare: I thought it became Esso or Texaco or something :)
<fire> beholder: how come no updates on unios?
<Beholder> fire: Nothing new to report I guess.  
<fire> kinda like tunes (fare: :P)
<Beholder> fire: Anything you'd like me to report? :)
<Fare> what's the name of the tycoon who built standard oil?
<fire> rockafeller or something
<fire> i can't spell it
<IMPO> rockefeller
<IMPO> yes
<IMPO> john d.
<Beholder> Ahh, yeah I've heard about that... US history isn't my strong point.  That was standard oil?
<IMPO> yes
<fire> beholder: funny that...im not all that up on canadian history 
<fire> ;)
<IMPO> canada has history?
<Fare> Isn't he the one who said he'd rather have 15% of a gigantic empire than 100% of a small company?
<IMPO> who knows
<Beholder> IMPO:  We had some people who liked the crown, and they said, "Hey! Canada sounds like a cool name, lets make a country"... now you know...
<IMPO> he gave the equivalency of 9 billion dollars in donations to public charities
<IMPO> yes
<IMPO> unfortunately some of your kin ran back into our country
<IMPO> we call them cajuns
<fire> ...
<IMPO> am i wrong?
<fire> heh when i was  in louisiana i saw a film at a state park on the cajuns
<IMPO> their name originates from acadia
<Beholder> IMPO: Actually a whole friggen province is looking at joining you guys...
<fire> we'd be happy to have em :)
<IMPO> i say we enslave them and populate the land
<Fare> IMPO: actually cajuns were there before the country was made part of the US...
<IMPO> but they are from acadia
<Tril> be: quebec does what now? join the US?
<IMPO> which is what is now known as part of canada
<Beholder> Fare:  Yes they were...  Long live the French!!!
<fire> if it is quebec well fuck it
<fire> we don't want their scum
<IMPO> we almost owned quebec in the revolutionary war
<Beholder> Tril:  They mention it every once in a while... that and joining france...
<Beholder> Tril:  And becoming a free country (dumb idea)
<IMPO> one of our generals was hit by a stray cannon ball and the yankees were obliterated
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<Tril> B: does quebec alraedy have its own currency?
<IMPO> sieging the main fortress
<fire> i say we enslave brazil
<Kaufmann> A-ha!
<fire> annex and enslave
<Beholder> IMPO:  Stray?!  That was my grandpappy!! :) hehe
05:20pm
<IMPO> well then either he lived a damn long time
<Beholder> Tril: Nope, they're still on Canadian currency at the moment
<IMPO> or you are rather old
* Kaufmann/#tunes catches fire and his subversive colleagues before they are able to carry out their evil master plan
<fire> :)
* fire/#tunes HUG
<Kaufmann> lol... "catches fire"
<IMPO> i think we should not interfere with any other country ever
<Kaufmann> I swear, that was completely unintentional
<fire> well if quebec wants to join they better switch entirely to english
<Beholder> IMPO:  I think Canada would like it if there was some interference if we were being attcked by something ;)
<Kaufmann> I think the notion of countries as autonomous entities is more trouble than it's worth
<IMPO> haha
<IMPO> who would ever attack canada
<fire> ever seen canadian bacon?
<IMPO> an angry mass of rabid beavers and owls maybe
<fire> the movie
<IMPO> michael moore is a genius
<IMPO> i cannot see how he has never won an oscar
<IMPO> not even for roger and me
<fire> beholder: coordinate me you big coordinator you
<IMPO> pretty soon every 5 square miles of land will want to be their own nation
<Kaufmann> I really think that where I choose to live should be the concern of no one other than me, unless, say, I choose to set up place in the middle of their farm or something of the sort... but under normal circumstances, I don't think that my right to travel and to take residence should be hindered by some arbitrary boundary.
<Beholder> fire:  I couldn't coordinate gum chewing... hehe
<Fare> fire: that was done before... by Portugal
<fire> well yes of course
<fire> and spain did that to the rest of south and central america
<Kaufmann> 5 square miles is a big-ass piece of land
<IMPO> not really
<IMPO> my city is about that big
<Fare> the US did not enslave the indians; just genocide them.
<fire> heh
<eihrul> not all of them
<eihrul> just most of them
<Fare> well, almost all of them
<IMPO> i have indian blood
<eihrul> there's still a small fraction of the various tribes left
<fire> the indians want new york back now
<Beholder> Fare:  Canada was nice to thier Indians... used them and gave em some nice swamp land
<IMPO> no fire
<IMPO> just manhattan
<eihrul> fire: a little late, no?
<fire> oh yes
<IMPO> well
<fire> no time like the present
<Fare> they did a much much better work than Hitler against the jews: the few remaining indians can but shut up
<IMPO> they have no case to take it back
<Kaufmann> IMPO, well, for my standards it's a big-ass piece of land. I mean, think about how much processing power or mag. storage we can already cram into a few milimeters...
<IMPO> see
<IMPO> their point about manhattan
<Fare> Beh: Canada fought its indians harshly until the late 20th century
<IMPO> is that they gave it up because they did not have any concept of land ownership
<IMPO> but
<IMPO> to take manhattan away would mean that they wanted to own it
<Fare> the last anti-indian laws in Canada were abolished in the 1970's, I think
<IMPO> we should legislate anti-canadian laws
<Kaufmann> A computer with 5 square miles of area would probably provide to the entire world's computing needs for a good time (barring networking issues, of course).
<Beholder> IMPO:  Why not?
<IMPO> only allow employees of saturday night live into the country
<Beholder> IMPO:  We gave them a whole provice recently...
<Fare> Kaufman: who'd administrate it? Microsoft?
<fire> US law should make it so that the only law that applys to indians is that no other US law applys to them
<IMPO> give them the whole country
<eihrul> Fare: subtelty, ocassionally you pass some legislation with loop holes that gives them hope but allows politicians to effectively do more damage...
<eihrul> give them a reservation
<eihrul> but right in the middle of a heavily populated and expanding state :)
<Beholder> provice=province
<eihrul> US law seems to apply to everything these days
<fire> or mabye indians shouldn't be taxed
<Kaufmann> Fare, yeah... it'll probably already /take/ 5 miles worth of HD space for Win2K to install :)
<Fare> fire: US law should make so that the US abide by treaties it signed with indian tribes
<IMPO> i tried win2k when beta 3 came out
<IMPO> i was glad to see that it didn't support winmodems
<IMPO> ironically
* Fare/#Tunes has a hell of a trouble configuring ipchains
<fire> trouble = time
* fire/#tunes continues to mentor fare is american slang
<eihrul> the US doesn't want you configuring ipchains
05:30pm
<fire> in rather
<eihrul> there is no other explanation
* Beholder/#tunes uses NAT and doens't worry about ipchains
<Fare> Beh: freesbie?
<Beholder> Fare: Yep
<Kaufmann> I'll be back in a second
<fire> fare: have you even gotten anyone together to work on the HLL?
<IMPO> i like how forth is similar to the english language
<IMPO> like if you give a word a value
<IMPO> you use it like an adjective to a noun
<Kaufmann> IMPO, yeah, /very/ similar... 5 4 + 3 + 1 +
<Kaufmann> BRB
<IMPO> not in math
<IMPO> idiot
<IMPO> i mean like for changing attributes
<IMPO> like if i want something blue
<IMPO> like a background
<Kaufmann> goto(HELL);
<Kaufmann> :)
<IMPO> i'd say "blue background"
<IMPO> which makes sense in english
-:- SignOff Kaufmann: #TUNES ("Jesus would make a good main character for a Seinfeld spinoff" - Amber)
<IMPO> instead of giving everything an enumeration and putting it as a parameter
<fire> more like "background blue"
<eihrul> IMPO: not really...
<eihrul> what about a blue background?
<IMPO> uh
<IMPO> blue background
<IMPO> in forth
<eihrul> what exactly are you doing with the blue background? your statement doesn't explicitly say
<IMPO> that is how you make the background blue
<IMPO> CHANGING THE BACKGROUND TO BLUE
<fire> no
<Fare> IMPO: in doze9x, it's easy
<IMPO> blue stores the number value of blue on the stack
<fire> forth is rpn
<IMPO> and background calls it
<Fare> IMPO: just move the mouse, or do something complex, and you'll get a blue background!
<fire> lol
<IMPO> is no one listening
<eihrul> IMPO: what is wrong with: set_background (blue) ?
<IMPO> i am saying it passes parameters first
<eihrul> which is no more natural than passing them after
<IMPO> it is not natural when thinking in terms of regular speech
* Beholder/#tunes is wondering why everyone uses Linux...
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<eihrul> you can warp your english interpretation to fit the language
<IMPO> you do not say to someone "look at that dog red big"
<eihrul> in spanish you do
<Beholder> IMPO:  That makes more sense... I think french is that way
<IMPO> well i do not speak spanish
<IMPO> nor french
<eihrul> mira a aquel perro rojo y grande
<IMPO> so what do i care
<Kaufmann> Beholder, it's like I say... "UNIX is the worst possible choice, except for all others"
<fire> bb in 30
<eihrul> so saying natural language is incorrect
<eihrul> saying its inconsistent with the english language might be, but the english language isn't consistent anyway
<eihrul> so who cares?
<Beholder> Kaufmann:  Hehehe,  I like that one 
<eihrul> it seems like a case of arguing which is the better reading orientation? right-to-left? or left-to-right?
<eihrul> it's almost arbitrary....
<eihrul> little endian or big endian?
<Beholder> eihrul:  Isn't there always a more logical choice?
05:40pm
<eihrul> yeah, eliminate nouns and adjectives
<Beholder> eihrul: And a more accepted choice
-:- SignOff fire: #TUNES (Ping timeout for fire[209-68-229-239.dialup.cust.tfb.com])
<Kaufmann> olhe aquele cão vermelho e grande
<Kaufmann> And now, in Jive
<Fare> Jive?
<Beholder> Fare: How goes your HLL design?
<eihrul> -1?
<abi> -1
<Kaufmann> Yo man! Look a' that' big ol' red dawg, brothah! SLAP MAH FRO!
<Kaufmann> Word up!
<IMPO> uh
<IMPO> i am saying
<IMPO> that it is similar to putting adjectives before a noun or or adverbs before verbs
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<Kaufmann> Jive, brothah!
<IMPO> i used to read both directions
<Kaufmann> Wussthamattahwitchoo?
<eihrul> sqrt (-1)?
<eihrul> er, darn abi
<eihrul> IMPO: but why does that make it any more useful?
<eihrul> i don't see why
<IMPO> i never said it was more useful
<Kaufmann> s/more/at all/;
<Kaufmann> :)
<eihrul> si senor kaufmann
05:50pm
<Kaufmann> Well, I'm off for good now
-:- SignOff Kaufmann: #TUNES ("Jesus would make a good main character for a Seinfeld spinoff" - Amber)
<Beholder> bye all
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06:00pm
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<fire> D:
<fire> all my best buddies are gone :(
<eihrul> eh.
<eihrul> ??
<fire> except eihrul :)
<eihrul> eh? i never said i was your buddy
<eihrul> thought hcf was?
<fire> yeah but he won't admit it ;)
* eihrul/#tunes ponders... halt and catch fire
<eihrul> coincidence?
06:30pm
<fire> no no
<fire> my name is derived from there being a water and my love of fire
<fire> but it is pretty funny :)
<eihrul> i know that...
<eihrul> but there's a coincidental relation
<fire> we are two peas in a pod me and hcf
<fire> silly c
<fire> it is not doing as i ask
-:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving)
<fire> it's the compiler's fault i tell you!@#
<eihrul> nope
<eihrul> programming languages do only what you tell them to... ideally
<fire> :P
<fire> Segmentation faults make me disgruntled
<eihrul> and since gcc is older than you are
<fire> cause i don't know where the problem is
<eihrul> exactly where you put it
<fire> better yet lar1 and i are two peas in a pod
<fire> :D
<eihrul> not really
<eihrul> you're two humans in a demographic
<fire> well hello mr fancy pants
<fire> you ain't nothing but jack and shit...and jack just left town
<eihrul> shit is very versatile
* fire/#tunes just sent lar1 a dirty email
<fire> im stalking people with the "w" command
06:40pm
* fire/#tunes gets back to the boring task of commenting code
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<fire> hi zhivago
<fire> im just leaving
<fire> i made a pointer to a pointer to function
<fire> does that make you horny?
<fire> ;)
<fire> later
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08:50pm
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<Zhivago> oh dear, children shouldn't be allowed to play with computers
09:00pm
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<air> wtf is up with syntax?
<eihrul> what?
11:00pm
<air> he has ping'd out about 10-15 times
<air> in a row
11:10pm
-:- SignOff air: #TUNES (BRiX [http://www.qzx.com/brix] :: sleep)
[msg(TUNES)] newlog 1999.1015
IRC log ended Fri Oct 15 00:00:01 1999