IRC log started Tue Oct 12 00:00:01 1999 -:- SignOff _Secret: #TUNES (Ping timeout for _Secret[20.pitt1.pitt.dialup.nauticom.net]) -:- CodeRot is now known as _Secret [msg(TUNES)] permlog 1999.1012 -:- razzi [humm@h1nw035.dial.kabelfoon.nl] has joined #tunes hi heh, u still have a ping timeout problem :) <_Secret> Hehe <_Secret> ya brand!!!!! hi. do you remember me ? razzi!!! vaguely -:- SignOff Zhivago: #TUNES (Leaving) thats enough. what happend to your os ? nothing <_Secret> I am going to do some coding on it why dont you come to #asm anymore ? cuz im on this network ppl here are more intelligent :) i am intelligent too. #asm wasnt really asm it was like a playground <_Secret> yA hmm. there was ppl there that didnt even know asm like who ? <_Secret> 95% of the channel actually hehe now we got these compo things and stuff. gets thing going. its nice. <_Secret> the best asmers are on #win32asm 12:10am yeah right. -:- Zhivago [brian@th.merddin.com.au] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff razzi: #TUNES (ircN 7.08 + 7.0 for mIRC (1999/08/09 22.00)) 12:20am -:- SignOff Fare: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Fare[quatramaran.ens.fr]) -:- SignOff td: #TUNES (td has no reason) -:- Fare [fare@quatramaran.ens.fr] has joined #Tunes oh crap bed time -:- SignOff air: #TUNES (BRiX [http://www.qzx.com/brix] :: sleep) 12:50am -:- SignOff Zhivago: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- SignOff Syntax: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Syntax[08-182.006.popsite.net]) -:- SignOff shalzac: #TUNES (Read error to shalzac[pc-1925326.unisa.ac.za]: EOF from client) -:- SignOff _Secret: #TUNES (Ping timeout for _Secret[94.pitt2.pitt.dialup.nauticom.net]) -:- SignOff Fare: #TUNES (Connection reset by pear) -:- fare [fare@quatramaran.ens.fr] has joined #Tunes -:- fare is now known as Fare -:- Closing Link: TUNES[bespin.dhs.org] by adams.openprojects.net (Ping timeout for TUNES[bespin.dhs.org]) -:- Connection closed from irc.us.openprojects.net: Success -:- Use /Server to connect to a server -:- Connecting to port 6667 of server irc.us.openprojects.net [refnum 0] -:- Unable to connect to port 6667 of server irc.us.openprojects.net: Interrupted system call -:- Connecting to port 6667 of server irc.us.openprojects.net [refnum 0] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: For more information about BitchX type /about -:- Welcome to the Internet Relay Network TUNES (from lewis.openprojects.net) -:- Your host is lewis.openprojects.net, running version u2.10.05.18.(ipcheck4-5) (from lewis.openprojects.net) -:- This server was cobbled together Wed Apr 28 1999 at 12 02:19 EDT(from lewis.openprojects.net) -:- lewis.openprojects.net u2.10.05.18.(ipcheck4-5) dioswkfcg biklmnopstv -:- [local users on irc(2)] 0% -:- [global users on irc(191)] 43% -:- [invisible users on irc(255)] 57% -:- [ircops on irc(13)] 3% -:- [total users on irc(446)] -:- [unknown connections(0)] -:- [total servers on irc(33)] (avg. 13 users per server) -:- [total channels created(139)] (avg. 3 users per channel) !lewis.openprojects.net Highest connection count: 8 (7 clients) !lewis.openprojects.net Welcome to Open Projects! You are on 4 ca 1(2) ft 14(14) tr. -:- Mode change [+f] for user TUNES -:- Mode change [+iws] for user TUNES -:- JOIN activated by "TUNES #tunes tunes@bespin.dhs.org " -:- TUNES [tunes@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #tunes -:- [Users(#tunes:5)] [ TUNES ] [ abi ] [ Fare ] [@Tril ] [ smkl ] -:- Channel #tunes was created at Sun Feb 28 08:48:06 1999 -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Join to #tunes was synced in 6.319 secs!! -:- Mode change [-s] for user TUNES -:- NetSplit: varley.openprojects.net split from irc.linux.com [04:31am] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [varley.openprojects.net] -:- Netjoined: varley.openprojects.net irc.linux.com -:- abi [nef@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #tunes -:- Syntax [dma@04-191.006.popsite.net] has joined #Tunes -:- fire [no@209-68-229-45.dialup.cust.tfb.com] has joined #tunes gakuk! :D 06:40am -:- SignOff fire: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us343.javanet.com] has joined #tunes -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us343.javanet.com] has joined #tunes -:- _Secret [scrat@77.pitt2.pitt.dialup.nauticom.net] has joined #tunes -:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us343.javanet.com] has left #tunes [] gakuk 11:40am -:- SignOff Syntax: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Syntax[04-191.006.popsite.net]) -:- IMPO [fslfj@137.49.53.111] has joined #tunes hi ok -:- SignOff IMPO: #TUNES (Leaving) 12:50pm -:- hcf_away [nef@me-portland-us124.javanet.com] has joined #tunes -:- hcf_away is now known as hcf -:- IMPO [fdsf@137.49.53.111] has joined #tunes hi 01:30pm lo 01:40pm -:- Syntax [dma@08-161.006.popsite.net] has joined #Tunes seen fire curses i must do it the old-fashioned way through svcs IMPO: the seen func requires that u directly address the bot abi: seen fire fire was last seen on IRC 8 hours, 8 minutes and 38 seconds ago, saying: :D [Tue Oct 12 06:34:07 1999] hm i have been sitting in this damned computer lab for too long i must go stretch bbl 02:50pm -:- SignOff _Secret: #TUNES (Ping timeout for _Secret[77.pitt2.pitt.dialup.nauticom.net]) -:- eihrul [eihrul@usr5-ppp158.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes hi 03:00pm -:- SignOff IMPO: #TUNES (: eating food mouth + ;) -:- lar1 [lar1@sdn-ar-011casfrMP183.dialsprint.net] has joined #tunes Hey hey -:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving) 03:30pm -:- Closing Link: TUNES[bespin.dhs.org] by lewis.openprojects.net (Ping timeout for TUNES[bespin.dhs.org]) -:- Connection closed from irc.us.openprojects.net: Success -:- Connecting to port 6667 of server irc.us.openprojects.net [refnum 0] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: For more information about BitchX type /about -:- Welcome to the Internet Relay Network TUNES (from clarke.openprojects.net) -:- Your host is clarke.openprojects.net, running version u2.10.05.18.(ipcheck4-5) (from clarke.openprojects.net) -:- This server was cobbled together Wed Apr 28 1999 at 13 24:47 EDT(from clarke.openprojects.net) -:- clarke.openprojects.net u2.10.05.18.(ipcheck4-5) dioswkfcg biklmnopstv -:- [local users on irc(14)] 3% -:- [global users on irc(239)] 43% -:- [invisible users on irc(313)] 57% -:- [ircops on irc(13)] 2% -:- [total users on irc(552)] -:- [unknown connections(0)] -:- [total servers on irc(34)] (avg. 16 users per server) -:- [total channels created(159)] (avg. 3 users per channel) !clarke.openprojects.net Highest connection count: 25 (24 clients) !clarke.openprojects.net Welcome to Open Projects! You are on 5 ca 1(2) ft 14(14) tr. -:- Mode change [+f] for user TUNES -:- Mode change [+iws] for user TUNES -:- JOIN activated by "TUNES #tunes tunes@bespin.dhs.org " -:- TUNES [tunes@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #tunes -:- Topic for #TUNES: Reflective Computing System - http://www.tunes.org/ -:- topic set by IMPO [Sat Oct 9 15:58:25 1999] -:- [Users(#Tunes:8)] [ TUNES ] [ lar1 ] [ eihrul ] [ Syntax ] [ abi ] [ Fare ] [ smkl ] [@Tril ] -:- Channel #Tunes was created at Sun Feb 28 08:48:06 1999 -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Join to #tunes was synced in 7.247 secs!! -:- Mode change [-s] for user TUNES eihrul: Would you beable to point me to a documnet that compares Monolithic to Micro kernels? not really Ok there's no specific benefit for a microkernel at all only thing is they are easier to make How are system calls made in a uK? The program passes a message to the system thread? -:- air [brand@p0wer.qzx.com] has joined #tunes Hey air hey up to you... but using messages for system calls is overkill What is the most common way to make system calls in a uK? interrupts or call gates that's the most common way to make system calls in general Now I am confused... if Monolithic and Micro kernels both do system calls the same way How are they different? microkernels provide lower level abstractions and less of them usually mono has hundreds of syscalls, uk should have less than 50 should... but not necessarily Ahh, I see the distinction between a mono and a micro is very subtle and almost nonexistant :) eihrul: uhh NOT you can have a monokernel with < 50 calls mono has all the drivers built in most early unixen had less than that but they weren't microkernels so mach has drivers built in but they still call it a microkernel eihrul: they are abusing the term the two terms are relatively meaningless :) thats why those that have true uk's have to use the word "true" 04:10pm true is not necessarily good if the a philosopy has not been used in pure form, then it was probably not good enough in pure form Ok, I feel ready to start the major work on my kernel... where do I start? Video services? air: a no-kernel has tens of thousands of non-system calls or it has no system calls at all.... 04:20pm No ideas on where I should start? anywhere you want Oy! Where is a good place to start? air: is the bfe on the web page the latest? -:- IMPO [fsd@137.49.53.111] has joined #tunes cp *.gif ../r2 ther eis an r2 dir in the parent dir but that gives me an error, im im just blind and not doing something right? s/im im/am i/ ../r2/ mabye? tried that too anywhere you want just read papers/books/tutorials/or whatever whichever part you thing you have the most concrete idea of start writing first er think where did _you_ start? 04:30pm lar1: i wrote all the apps first :) Heh air 04:40pm damn bochs had full pentium support now But BFE won't work with it, right? 04:50pm uhh, no i was just kidding when i said i wrote all the apps first Yes, I know But will BFE run withe the latest Bochs? oh i dont know Ok dont care either Heh When paging is enbled... program sitll access memory the same way they would when there wasn't paging, right? slector:offset yes but the address produced from the sel:off is mapping to a physical address by the mmu when paging is on So it really gets translated to table entry:offest? 05:00pm air: you mean linear, don't you? Fare: no eihrul: I am going to steal your licence, if you don't mind... I like it quite a bit :) is it like the bugroff license? bugroff licence? It basicly says I own it, you can modify it, and if you die cause of it, it ain't my afuly s/afully/fualt 05:10pm i like mine more i own it, u can modify it but i gain ownership of yer modifications Thats quite restrictive i like it :) I woundn't touch BRiX With a 10 meter pole oh i didnt say that was the license i am using Ok, good :) im using a closed source license for brix :) Hey! Where did the docs at http://www.tunes.org/~qz/html/borg.qzx.com go? Doh! I don't like that one even more!! http://www.tunes.org/~qz/ Ah, thanks 05:20pm What are the reserved memory locations? IDT (IVT), BIOS, etc? s/what/where -:- SignOff IMPO: #TUNES (Leaving) 05:30pm lar1: that's fine dude i ripped everything but the terms from BSD license :) eihrul: Cool :) Thanks -:- Kaufmann [Kaufmann@dial638.infolink.com.br] has joined #tunes Shalom! lo Shalom, Kaufmann! You speak Hebrew? lar, ani lo medaberet Ivrit tovah :( that language is not friendly to right handed people -:- NetSplit: calvino.openprojects.net split from irc.linux.com [05:35pm] -:- BitchX+Deb1an: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [calvino.openprojects.net] -:- Netjoined: calvino.openprojects.net irc.linux.com -:- smkl [sami@glubimox.yok.utu.fi] has joined #Tunes Well, the Roman alphabet is not friendly to lefties either :( you're a lefty? Do you have any idea how annoying it is? Whenever I use an inky pen my sleeve gets all stained i see i seem to mark up my arms and hands completely despite being right handed (i fiddle/tinker with my pen a lot) I don't speak Hebrew well either... just the basic basic basic, I used to know just a little more... I've forgotten most of the little I knew Heh, eihrul! Me too!! Anyway... Well, call me a complete idiot, but I /still/ don't understand monads. monads? Yer not alone... I don't even know what they are! LOL lar1 i barely grokked a bit of them... but that they were supposed to be useful for abstracting function composition and that you could implement exceptions with them Go here: http://www.engr.mun.ca/~theo/Misc/haskell_and_monads.htm and call me later for a Tylenol 05:40pm Kaufmann: Uh oh... heh AHHHHHHH! I haven't even really started reading... first glance is enought to give me a headache! -:- SignOff smkl: #TUNES (Ping timeout for smkl[glubimox.yok.utu.fi]) -:- Cobol [k@204.32.30.57] has joined #tunes * Kaufmann/#tunes kills Cobol hi humpf? Ahhh... now I feel a whole lot better why am I to be killed? hummm well, in that case, ok. * Cobol/#tunes dies. Haven't you heard? COBOL programming is Considered Harmful. Damnit! Netscape just dumped on me!! I'm not even vaguely familiar with the language. Cobol, then why the nick? It's a long, long story. Besides, it's what's on the members page. uh, you can change that yourself I can? if you know how to use CVS. I've been gone a while... -:- SignOff Kaufmann: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Kaufmann[dial638.infolink.com.br]) CVS? or you can just tell me what to change it to 05:50pm CVS is the versioning system used on our web page oic. Well, err, nothing, really. if you have account on tunes.org you have access to change te page :) I couldn't come up with any better anyways. ok, well, then, Hi Cobol! Well, Tril, last time I came here was...what? A long time ago? Me no have account :-) if you're on the member page you can get an account not that any of that is important. doing work is important. I think I may finally be a viable component of the team. When I understood a plain 6502 motherboard, I decided that I am half-way competent. is if(x!=y!=z) blah; valid in C? how do you understand a motherboard? you know what all the parts are? or you could draw the schematic from memory? air: yes but probably doesnt mean what you want I understand it, as in, I can understand how it does what it does. For a long time I was very confused as to how the components connect to each other. air: is treated like if ((x!=y) != z) , i.e the first comparison is 1 or 0, which is compared to z thats waht i thought -:- SignOff eihrul: #TUNES (Ping timeout for eihrul[usr5-ppp158.lvdi.net]) -:- _Secret [scrat@11.pitt1.pitt.dialup.nauticom.net] has joined #tunes are we having some server problems today? -:- eihrul [eihrul@usr5-ppp158.lvdi.net] has joined #tunes Has anybody layed out anything as far as the HLL language? still working on it. at the snail's pace What are the major problems? the problem is describing it in english other than that, time management 06:00pm *L* Yeah, that's pretty much the major problem behind any high-levle language. actually, the next thing i'm going to do is try to define a text-mode language for pieces at a time that would be good, then we could get some code down on paper. eww, paper on disk would be preferred YOU can print it , not me -:- Kaufmann [Kaufmann@dial751.infolink.com.br] has joined #tunes LOL Why whould anyone in any state of mind wite code on paper? Back... damn ISP wouldn't let me connect again Anyway... abi, Cobol? Cobol is, like, COmmon Business Oreinted Language It wasn't exactley mean to be taken literally. mean = meant abi, COBOL is also Considered Harmful okay, Kaufmann. lar, why indeed?!? Null in ASCII is 0, right? Kaufmann: Its better on screen/disk Kaufmann: I don't like writing out code at all abi, yes. err, lar1 lar, yeah, you just keep it in your head, right? :) Johnny Mneomic 2: The LAR. abi, netscape? somebody said netscape was one massive program Kaufmann: Depends on what I am doing, for simple things I might work it out in my head... but most of the time I type insetad of wite w/ paper y una lapiz abi, netscape is also like that, and it'll never get better, so get used to it okay, Kaufmann. Cobol: What? lar1, ASCII nul =0 lar, have you changed languages in mid-sentence? i just spend 2 hours writting php3 code for a web page and it didnt save and is now gone. im gonna go postal now so u might all want to run and hide * Cobol/#tunes prefers to arm himself. * eihrul/#tunes gets out his riot gear. Kaufmann: Yes, many native speakers of Spanish at my school enjoy doing that so I thought Id give it a shot :) Cobol: Ok, thanks * lar1/#tunes puts on flame sheid and ducks * Kaufmann/#tunes takes out his Celtig longsword and prepares for battle There can be only one! nack! Me gusta talking in one langage entonces switching to another :) Like I said, its very popular at my school :) Well, I don't how good that is, ganz besonders in deutsch.... Except I lack sufficent knoledge of espanol to do it well lar, that's rather annoying :) Ok, ok, I'll stop in areas that are bilingual this is how new dialects are produced.. Well, the good thing about Portuguese is that very poucas pessoas no IRC, fora eu, entendem... that is one way i mean. linguistics is fun 06:10pm Ahora hablo primero en espanol! Just kidding :) hablan en el ingles, ahora, por favor! * Cobol/#tunes needs to get out more. Ok, I think that is quite enough fun with the languages :) So do I. *nods* you know, abi has translation not that we need to play with that either Tril, how does it work? I promise, I'll keep it in pvt :) abi: x from spanish how does it work? no please not again Tril: how does it work? Kaufmann, interface to babblefish abi: x to spanish How does it work? lar1: C�mo trabaja? Heh air oic abi, x to Portuguese Screw you! Kaufmann: babel chunk 62.> ROTFL! now, now... * Kaufmann/#tunes sees Perl's unmistakeable hand here we did this the other night with earth1, lets not do it again Damnit, when ever I try to type air I end up typing sir! air, you are gonna have to chang nicks... again :) air, yes, air! Well, I'm off now Buh-bye Later Kaufmann! -:- SignOff _Secret: #TUNES (Ping timeout for _Secret[11.pitt1.pitt.dialup.nauticom.net]) * Cobol/#tunes waves. -:- SignOff Kaufmann: #TUNES (AAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIRGH!!!!!!!!!!) anybody know of an easy to build EEPROM programmer? no, but i know somebody who might know 06:20pm Whenever you see him, could you ask, if it's not too much trouble? I won't see him, but I can give you his email -:- SignOff lar1: #TUNES (Ping timeout for lar1[sdn-ar-011casfrMP183.dialsprint.net]) I would be grateful. ok i sent you. He just got an engineering degree. If you contact him mention WCUG actually go to #wcug and see if he is there.. I forget what nick he uses k, thanx =) -:- _Secret [scrat@87.pitt2.pitt.dialup.nauticom.net] has joined #tunes -:- lar1 [lar1@sdn-ar-004casfrMP189.dialsprint.net] has joined #tunes wb :) Did you get my last message? appernetly not, its not in the logs Nevermind then, looks like Tril got yer question feel free to contribute any input you might have. 06:30pm Ok. Yer best bet might be to buy one cheap at an electronics flea market. But if you really really want to build one, you might want to consider using a 16f84 air: You didn't see that :) I'm afraid I don't know an awfull lot about this. can you elaborate a litt?e Ah, well a 16f84 is a small (phyical and otherwise) microcontroler oic. it can be easily programmed via a simple circut and a computer oh, so it's simple enough to slap on a breadboard? Yes * Cobol/#tunes considers this. Its a _very_ simple microcontroler... http://www.microchip.com * Cobol/#tunes looks. ah shit, it's a 2v device? I don't think it is... I am not sure though. Why is this bad? Small breadboard, no room for voltage regulators. *L* No, I just don't feel entirely comfortable with it. :) Ok 06:40pm * Cobol/#tunes throws up TTL gang-signs. * lar1/#tunes throws up westside sign -:- IMP [ihatebob@p06-24.hartford.dialin.ntplx.com] has joined #tunes -:- IMP is now known as IMPO * lar1/#tunes throws up the heavy metal sign as well -:- TechnoXyp [none@206-ppp-a.tnt03.agis.net] has joined #tunes hi -:- TechnoXyp [none@206-ppp-a.tnt03.agis.net] has left #tunes [] hummmm OH! it's risk. err, risc that makes it all better. Yup yup _very_ simple stuff but 64 bytes if memory? I don't think I could power a piezo buzzer on that. if = of I think you read it wrong... theres not alot of memory, but more then that I think 68 bytes of user available, and 1700-something for program. it is tiny, though. 06:50pm * Cobol/#tunes is thinking. Let me run this by you. Let's say I put x-number of SIMM's on a data bus. They wouldn't care about what level their inputs are as long as I don't toggle the enable flag, would they? I don't belive so that would make the whole affair a lot simpler. But keep in mind that air is the one with the degree :) yeah, but he's not listening, True :) and you're a convinient target. I'd still have to make the bloody address logic circuit. :-/ brb k Why would anyone want a computer to be an xterm? maybe they need a terminal?? Hmm Well Ihave a sun 3/50 and I am trying to figure out what to do with it... Send it to me =) * Cobol/#tunes has always wanted a Sun. Heh, me too... but now that i have one I don't know what to do with it You polish it, and then you let it sit in the corner, and when somebody asks you want kind of comp you have, you cooly say "Sun workstation.", with an arrogant heir to it. Heh :) Thing is, the Sparcs looks the same form the outside sooo :) mmm 24 sparc color workstations all under my supremacy Yeah, I think you have a top-of-the line model. ;-) Yup, this is the real deal Kill him! He's the Anti-Crhist! You own 24 sparc workstaions? no dana hall does and i co-admin them hummm.... * Cobol/#tunes thinks 'Distributed Computing Enviorment'... 07:00pm you don't by any chance have any gigabit ethernet cards lying around, do you? no but i can get you 30 discrete mathematics textbooks if you want them Uhh HUMMM 30 copys of the same book, eh? yes all with diskettes in the back I think I'll just steal one from my teacher. When I get back to school, that is. I have a horrible fever. do de do i am tempted to take the dos 3.3 user manual LOL whatfor? fire-wood? i have this antique table and one of the legs broke it would fit in perfectly. and i'm tired of using the space heater to hold it up I have a 1995 computer buyer guide... I got it for 25 cents Heh that lab has all this outdated software sitting there for anyone -:- _ruiner_ [nate@ppp348.wi.centurytel.net] has joined #tunes like wordperfect 5.2 for windows 3.1 I'm considering crusing for gargage sales, to find anything Z80 or 6502 based, just for the CPU's. <_ruiner_> I like wp 6.1 for 3.1 Cobol: You could splurge the whole buck or so and buy a z80 new you know lar>> Heavens, no. There are lots of cool, hard-to-find IC's in those old boxes. Besides, $1 is too much. I'll just steal them. :) the trick is, 6502 was great to come at the end of the day. And then say, "Hey, I'll give ya 5 bucks for that thing." Just give them the money and leave. Don't even wait for a response. the only desire i'd have to learn assembly for it would be for the original nintendo console though the 6502 is cool little chip. The NES use(s|d) a 6502? yes gameboy uses z80 don't try using a 25mhz clock crystal with it though...*grin* so does the gameboy color I like the 6502 as well.. Think apple ][e!! really? The gameboy orginal use(s|d) a hacked Z80 it isn't much different. the z80's been around for what now? a couple of the registers aren't there,