IRC log started Fri Aug 13 00:00:00 1999
[msg(TUNES)] permlog 1999.0813
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!The_Hymenater:*! ph34r m3
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<hcf> hoy smkl
<smkl> hello hcf
08:50am
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<hcf> hoy water
<water> hola
<water> is fare here?
09:20am
<hcf> nick is, havnt seen it output anything
<water> what's the syntax to find out from abi when a person last spoke?
<hcf> abi: seen fare
<abi> fare was last seen saying something on IRC Tue Aug 10 15:10:19 1999
<water> :P
<water> Fare is a lurker
<water> abi: Fare?
<abi> somebody said Fare was sometimes looking at another screen and interruptible with a beep (/msg Fare ^G) or at http://www.tunes.org/~fare/ or connected through a crappy ISP (cybercable.fr) or pronounced Fahree
<water> i'm enjoying a day off
<water> btw, i found "A Crash Course in Arrow Logic"
<hcf> abi's seen data is way off
<hcf> by like 2 days
<water> k
<hcf> (for fare at least)
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<water> gato!
<ElGato> water!
<ElGato> :D
<ElGato> is fare awake?
09:30am
<hcf> water: http://www.phil.uu.nl/preprints.html
<water> there's quite a coincidence!
<water> thanks, i already have those
<hcf> good
<water> well, i definitely haven't read 'em all, and i only have most
<hcf> http://www.ccsom.uva.nl/replst/bk-marx95.html
* ElGato/#tunes is almost through the first paragraph of the arrow paper
<water> very cool
<water> hehe
<water> gato: i'm going to post a good url to the list in a minute
<water> "A Crash Course in Arrow Logic"
<ElGato> :)
<ElGato> that'll help a lot
<water> ok. you should receive it soon
<ElGato> is arrow logic your idea or something you expanded upon?
<water> i expanded on it
<water> my idea is Reflective (Relativised) Arrow Logic
<ElGato> i learned forth yesterday (started learning forth that is)
<water> cool
<ElGato> i can see now why fare calls it universal
<ElGato> you can do anything with it really
<water> it still has drawbacks, though
<ElGato> like what?
09:40am
<water> basically, it doesn't reflect very well, and it only executes well in a particular way
<ElGato> oh
<water> it's very good for tiny memory environments, though
<ElGato> reflection
<ElGato> hmmm
<ElGato> lemme look at the review page
<water> for instance, its memory management methods are hard to change
<ElGato> what i see is that it would be kinda hard to create a good object modek
<ElGato> model
<water> that too
<water> you could _emulate_ an object model with it, though. but of course that's different
<hcf> water: http://psyultra.psy.ccu.edu.tw/itallc98/english/abstract/paper.htm
<ElGato> for my language i wanna put together all the good parts of forth and scheme together with a good object model
<water> wwwooooowwww
<water> (i mean about hcf's url)
<water> gato: k
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<water> arg!
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<water> they're just abstracts!
* water/#tunes goes looking for the real papers
<ElGato> the lengua papaer!
<ElGato> when or if it is written :)
<water> Taiwan is such a beautiful place... (sigh) :)
<ElGato> were you there when you went off to sea?
<water> is lengua still going to have #include-like keywords?
<water> yes
<ElGato> i don't know yet
<ElGato> i want to mabye have something like that or (load ...)
09:50am
<water> bah :)
<ElGato> ?
<ElGato> i like modularity
<water> i just think that having to explicitly support modularity is pretty lame
<hcf> water: http://www.illc.uva.nl/Publications/Lists/www-allseries-all.html
<water> been there. done that. they still haven't sent me the t-shirt i ordered, though. :)
<ElGato> water: so water, what do you want?  one big source file?
<water> hehe
<water> gato: play with smalltalk a little. it has a persistent store of objects.
<water> gato: it has lame modularity, though, unfortunately
<ElGato> er
<water> ?
<ElGato> but can you load anything from files though
<water> yes, you can load crap that will cause your machine to crash!
<water> as opposed to stuff that has already been checked for errors ahead of time
<water> "loading anything from files" = lame modularity
<ElGato> nah
<water> why not? you have to explicitly check the module for errors every time you load
<ElGato> how then would you be able to move your programs around??
<water> oh geez
<water> i'm not saying that sharing modules is bad, but when you treat them as low-level data, i.e. as files, then you have to check them every time you load them.
<water> just like c
10:00am
<water> btw, i'm pretty sure that fare would agree with me on that point.
<ElGato> :/
<ElGato> i just don't see how you could write a "header", save it, turn off you computer, and work on it some more the next day without files
<water> arrgghhh!!
<water> p e r s i s t e n c e
<ElGato> :)
<ElGato> ohhh
<water> no explicit saving
<ElGato> persistence
<water> yeah, as in "the persistent object store of Smalltalk Squeak"
<ElGato> for an interactive programming environment?
<water> sure, or otherwise
<water> (interactive = explorative?)
<ElGato> as in typing everything out at a prompt
<ElGato> like forth
<water> well, it could be graphical, too
<water> as in Self's Seity and Morphic UI's
<ElGato> and then could the destination of this persistant storage be a FILE?
<water> i.e. objects are directly manipulated on the screen, and can execute there, too
<water> file = element of a file-system
<water> i'm saying the persistent store basically replaces the file-system
<water> but you can put the store in a file like Squeak does. it still results in lame modularity, though
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<water> wb
<HickServ> thanks
<water> but you can put the store in a file like Squeak does. it still results in lame modularity, though
<water> (just in case you missed that)
<HickServ> well let's not get into parts of the os
<water> k
<water> (although i think the boundary is arbitrary)
<HickServ> the early point of lengua is to snarf another os/language 
<HickServ> that other language being lengua binded with buenos
<HickServ> yes
<HickServ> no boundry
10:10am
<water> what were we talking about before this?
<HickServ> forth
<water> oh yeah
<water> hmm. no comments here
<HickServ> water: say we wanted to distribute a lengua source program online that had modular components.  THere has to be files
<water> well, sure, but it should be really simple for another user to make sure that our code doesn't give him or her lots of nasty bugs
<water> or it should be easy to see and change the discrepancies
<water> looked at Modula-N? (N=0,1,2,3)
<water> it definitely takes modularity for Pascal-a-likes to the extreme.
<HickServ> now shouldn't i be able to have a word such as "load to be able to load "objects" and when necessary files
<water> well, sort of. not everything loads the same way, which means having one keyword makes the implementation complicated
<water> it depends on what the modules are allowed to do. do they just give you handles to objects and (public) methods?
<HickServ> better yet, this "header" doesn't contain source but a format that contains verified source
10:20am
<HickServ> or uh compiled/verified source
<water> ah. _compiled_ source
<HickServ> hehehe
<HickServ> object code
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<HickServ> water: so when the main code is compiled, it just links all the modules
<water> you're going to use this kind of system with a Forth/Scheme mix
<water> ?
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<HickServ> i guess you could call it a mix
<HickServ> im just trying to put ideas together
<water> k
<HickServ> mind you, most of the time i don't have the slightest idea what anyone else, or myself, are talking about
<water> hehe
<HickServ> hell forth and scheme are too different from each other
<water> well, there's a way to link them, but it's not what you usually think of
<water> Forth?
<abi> Forth is at http://www.forth.org or a nice user interface
<water> er
<HickServ> i don't care what it resembles
<HickServ> as long as it's powerful
<water> forth _is based on term-rewrite logic, which changes words into other word sequences. you can do the same thing in lisp or scheme with SEXP's and lambdas
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10:30am
<water> damned ChaOSers!
<HickServ> i think i just like the idea of scheme witha forth stack
<water> k
<HickServ> as sham would say "now your ideas just sound like crazy man talk"
<water> scheme does have a stack, though, for its terms
<HickServ> yes
<HickServ> but it isn't the same thing
<HickServ> and you can't manipulate the stack in the sam eway
<water> well, sure.
<Fare> gakuk
<water> yablutsk
<water> Fare: ftp://ftp.phil.uu.nl/pub/logic/PREPRINTS/preprint107.ps.Z
10:40am
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<water> (if you haven't checked email yet)
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<water> wb
<ElGato> this is really pisssing me off
<Fare> email?
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<water> i sent the url to the general tunes list
<water> "A Crash Course in Arrow Logic"
<ElGato> the only thing im not sure of now is what gives a lnguage more potential as to being reflective than another
<water> don't know how to answer that, myself
<ElGato> fare?
<abi> i heard fare was sometimes looking at another screen and interruptible with a beep (/msg Fare ^G) or at http://www.tunes.org/~fare/ or connected through a crappy ISP (cybercable.fr) or pronounced Fahree
<Fare> EG: yes?
<ElGato> any idea on my question??
<Fare> which question?
<ElGato> the only thing im not sure of now is what gives a lnguage more potential as to being reflective than another
<abi> i already had it that way, ElGato.
<Fare> EG: depends on what kind of reflection you want.
<Fare> at the most basic level, you want quoting.
<Fare> then, you want some formal semantics
<Fare> and then you want an embedding of lambda-calculus
<water> s/you/Fare
<Fare> now, this isn't enough, for you also want some kind of universality wrt concurrent computations
<water> speaking of which
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<Fare> and that's something I still haven't fully formalized, although it's nearly done
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<water> what's your idea about that?
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<water> Fare: you there?
<Fare> somehow
<Fare> about what?
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<water> about universality wrt concurrent computations
10:50am
<Fare> well, ymust formalize a notion of intentionality to achieve it
<water> which for you means... ?
<Fare> actually, the question is very tricky, because you either have to take into account a lot of hypotheses about the "external world",
<Fare> or you have to use a probabilistic approach
<water> in other words, the problem is very complex
<Fare> yes.
<Fare> You can simplify it in various ways;
<Fare> especially if you're having a "centralized implementation" of your system
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<ElGato> hey fare, how do you call a lambda proc?
<Fare> (which seems to defeat part of the purpose of formalizing concurrent computations)
<Fare> EG: ((lambda () (foo)))
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<_water> that was weird
<ElGato> where foo is the variable binded to that proc?
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<water> :P
<ElGato> fare!!!
<Fare> EG: hum. Did you read the Scheme tutorials at schemers.org ?
<ElGato> where foo is the variable binded to that proc?
<ElGato> ok
<ElGato> no im reading another good one
<Fare> if you prefer Haskell style, it's different
<water> centralizing the implementation would eliminate a lot of the complexity, but is it enough when you want scheme to run an os?
<Fare> and ML is differnt, too
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<ElGato> oh and one more thing before i leave about scheme's scope
<ElGato> can a procedure use a variable ina "let" expression if that let was defined in that procedure?
<Fare> centralizing allows you to guarantee invariants on the "external world" to programs
<water> sure, but by how much?
11:00am
<water> i mean, how much is enough?
<ElGato> or can a procedure use a variable in another procedure that was defined in the same procedure who wants to use it (toung twister)
<Fare> (define (foo x) (let ((y x)) (lambda () (set! y (+ y 1)) y)))
<Fare> water: how much what?
<water> how many invariants, i suppose.
<ElGato> n/m
<ElGato> later
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<water> i guess i'm asking you to clarify 'universality wrt concurrent computations'.
<Fare> yes
<water> please do
<Fare> and it looks like I'll have to parametrize it on the capabilities offered by "basic I/O" properties
<Fare> i.e., parametrize it on the external world.
<water> right
<water> but what about properties like a computation's suitability for being interrupted?
<Fare> btw, what's the relatinoship between _your_ arrow stuff, and that dutch arrow logic?
<water> can that be parametrized?
<Fare> water: you don't see computations being interrupted; you just send and receive information from them
<water> well, my arrow stuff casts the "points and arrows" style into an "arrows and arrows" style
<water> sends and receives smacks of message-based semantics
<Fare> you only have a behavioral observability of a system
<Fare> the question is "universal with respect to what category of transformations?"
<water> k
11:10am
<water> btw, my arrow system is also more similar to the "concrete" arrow logic style
<Fare> is there a historic relationship between yours and their arrow logic?
<hcf> abi: accial?
<abi> rumour has it accial is "A Crash Course in Arrow Logic" at ftp://ftp.phil.uu.nl/pub/logic/PREPRINTS/preprint107.ps.Z
<water> well, my idea as an intuition began over 5 years ago, but i wasn't sure about it until my research into logic culminated in discovering arrow logic
<water> the arrow logic idea definitely pre-dates mine
<water> thanks, hcf
<water> of course, i was pretty young when most of the major work developed
<Fare> did you take the name "arrow logic" from there?
<water> sure
<water> but i was already using the word arrow for a long time
<Fare> ok
<water> anyway, my extension of it to allow arrows to point to arrows makes it a reflective arrow logic.
<water> !!!!!!
<water> sorry, a slashdot article got my attention
11:20am
<Fare> water: what do YOU think about universality wrt concurrent computations?
<Fare> which /. article?
<water> about ibm distributing a free PowerPC motherboard design
<water> they only mention linux as benefitting, but i can forsee BeBoxes in the near future
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<water> about universality... : i was thinking in terms of the expressiveness of the language in dealing with the concurrency issues
<hcf> water: perhaps u could email me a list of papers for which ur looking for e- copies of
<water> perhaps as an aspect or something
<water> hcf: when i get the chance, sure
<Fare> water: "universality", by definition, is maximal expressiveness
<water> sure, but maximal expressiveness isn't very clear for me on the subject of concurrency, because it is quite complex
11:30am
<hcf> abi: seity is at http://www.parc.xerox.com/istl/members/bchang/seity/
<Fare> which is why my next paper will tackle universality in general, putting aside concurrency issues to begin with
<water> cool. thanks, hcf
<water> fare: ok
<Fare> in parallel, my boss is having me work on a particular model of reflective concurrent computations
<Fare> rather, a framework than a modeol
<water> what is it like?
<Fare> it's like the ODP model (of which my boss is an author)
<Fare> consider it as a rewrite logic for objects exchanging messages.
<water> ah
<Fare> I must formalize the notion of a "domain of computation"
<Fare> that will most likely end up as being a notion of dynamic implementation
<water> as in the lambda calculus :)
<Fare> (as formalized in my last article)
<water> k
<Fare> lambda calc?
<water> lambda calc = domain of computation ?
<Fare> no
<Fare> but lambda calc may be what's implemented within the domain
<water> what do you mean, then?
<water> computation = discrete recursive algorithm , doesn't it?
<Fare> well, something like a failure domain, or a naming domain, or whatever, such that it expresses the fact that some computation is distributed over such and such nodes
<Fare> a "domain" would encapsulate notions of failure of computation
<Fare> of protection domain
<Fare> etc
<Fare> hum. Dinner time
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<water> fare sounds like he wants a state-machine formalism
11:40am
<water> brb
<water> n/m
11:50am
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<water> hey beh
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12:10pm
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<shamino> hey eihrul
<eihrul> lo
01:30pm
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<ElGato> hi
<eihrul> lo
02:10pm
<ElGato> sup?
<eihrul> just woke up... working on kernelish things
<ElGato> ahhh
<ElGato> what in particular if i might ask
<eihrul> just finally starting on the interrupt handling parts
<ElGato> for what os?
<eihrul> shrug... for right now, it's just a kernel
<ElGato> just your personal os?
<eihrul> jah
<ElGato> what kind of kernel?
<eihrul> micro
<ElGato> cool
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02:20pm
<ElGato> wb aqua
<water> hey
<eihrul> ho
* water/#tunes is shopping for a pda.
<water> preferrable one of the ones with a Squeak port
<eihrul> arrow logic on a pda?
<water> hehe
<water> well, smalltalk will be enough for now, but yes
<eihrul> is smalltalk vm even small enough?
<water> it will allow me to write and code while at work
<water> yeah, it's less than a meg, and the object store is easily just a meg or two
<eihrul> could probably get a mini-notebook for the same price or so
<water> true, but i can only use a handheld at work
<eihrul> librettos are pretty cheap
<water> i work for the nuclear navy: they hate computers
<eihrul> or rather, the old ones... and not too big
<water> libretto? i'll look it up
<eihrul> the new models are quite pricy
<eihrul> but the the ones with P100's in them or so are going fairly cheap now
<eihrul> Toshiba makes them
<water> i just need a simple one that focuses on the stylus
<water> since tiny keyboards are so useless. i've tried to use them
<eihrul> very much so
<eihrul> i bought a casseopeia
<eihrul> the thing was near useless
<eihrul> but those were REALLY tiny keyboards
<hcf> water: urls, mostly modal logic, which u likely have already: http://turing.wins.uva.nl/~mdr/Publications/modal-logic.html, http://turing.wins.uva.nl/~marx/papers.html, http://turing.wins.uva.nl/~carlos/hybrid/, http://turing.wins.uva.nl/~carlos/mypapers.html, http://turing.wins.uva.nl/~yde/
<water> holy cow
<water> i'll check them out soon
<water> let's see... squeak has been ported to the Sharp Zaurus, the Cassiopeia, and the HP320LX
02:30pm
<eihrul> cassiopeia? :)
<eihrul> maybe i might have some use for the thing after all if i could get a squeak environment going in it :)
<eihrul> what's the url for squeak again?
<water> squeak?
<abi> squeak is a cool language descended from Smalltalk, at http://squeak.cs.uiuc.edu/ or at http://www.squeak.org/
<eihrul> ack... lost the the software to download stuff to my cassiopeia
<water> i'm sure you can download that software
<water> btw, squeak has primitive hand-writing recognition, which of course can be extended
<eihrul> probably wouldn't run very fast anyway... it's one of the first cassiopeia's
<water> what processor?
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02:40pm
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<water> wb
<water> it seems the squeak port was to WinCE devices running on SH3 chips
<eihrul> cassiopeia didn't use a SH3 did it?
<eihrul> can't remember which CPU the thing had
<water> yes
<water> i'm checking out www.wincecity.com
<water> it has all the info
<eihrul> was probably a mips
<water> which cassiopeia was it?
<eihrul> A10
<eihrul> really really old
<water> yeah
<eihrul> $400 was rather pricy for it... considering
<water> the a20 had an sh3
02:50pm
<water> hmm. the squeak port to ce is monochrome
<eihrul> who needs color anyway?
<water> and the pointer interface is buggy due to mouse vs stylus differences
<eihrul> always the libretto :)
<water> but for basic programming, this apparently is the best for a pda
<water> hehe... of course, it doesn't support things that pda's don't support :)
03:00pm
<water> actually, the 2.2 version supports MIPS, too
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<Fare> A20?
<Fare> A10?
<water> what about them?
03:10pm
<water> (wb Fare)
<Fare> oh
<Fare> weren't they infamous WinCE machines?
<water> hehe... yes
<Fare> my next OS wil be named RecoIL
<water> squeak was ported to wince machines based on sh3 and mips cpu's
<water> since i'd like to have a pda with a good programming system, i'm looking at those models
<water> i'd get a palm-pilot, but i haven't found a really good programming environment for it
<water> RecoIL?
<Fare> or maybe PaIN
<water> hehe... why?
<Fare> as a rival to WinCE
<water> just make a lisp for it
<water> oh
<water> n/m :)
03:20pm
* Fare/#Tunes tries to learn ILISP and CL
<ElGato> Si vous rayez mon bout, je rayerai votre bout.
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<water> hey pyro
<pyro> hey, how are ya?
<ElGato> hey pyro
<water> all right. shopping for a pda
<pyro> hey, you know if those butane soldering irons are any good?
<water> dunno
<ElGato> bah
<ElGato> i'd think electric would be better but you best ask liar
<ElGato> he's into all that crap
<pyro> oh yeah, he does that alot
<ElGato> hey pyro: serial.asm ius all fucked up
<pyro> I've got a couple cheap electric irons.. they all suck
<ElGato> it's no where close to compiling
<pyro> serial? Paul's working on that.. it's never actually worked for me
<ElGato> well there are like 200 errors :)
<pyro> fix a few, and it'll compile
<ElGato> ok
<ElGato> my brother needs the computer
<ElGato> i'll be back
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<pyro> later.
03:40pm
<water> is there a good programming system for the palm pilot?
<pyro> probably.. there's a wide variety of programs for it.
<water> hmm. PocketC
<pyro> pilotForth
<pyro> palmLinux?
<water> that too
<water> no thanks
<pyro> right, too big
<water> i can't imagine logging in as root on a pda
<pyro> hahaha
<pyro> try logging in remotely :)
<water> xterm!
<water> :D
<pyro> the new ones have 4 megs RAM, right?  not bad at all!
<water> ugh... pocket c compiles to bytecode
<pyro> ack
<pyro> How about assembler? I bet it's a nice CPU, like the 68000
<water> there's a squeak ported to wince, actually, but it requires the cpu to be an sh3 or mips chip
<water> hmm. basic :)
<pyro> sh3? is that shboom?
<water> huh?
<pyro> there's a forth/java cpu called the shboom.. aka PSC1000
<water> oh. no, the sh3 is a pretty simple chip (maybe risc)
<Fare> ain't the PSC1000 ShBoom II ?
<Fare> and the "Java" aspect is purely for marketing
<pyro> right :)
<water> hey! lisp for palmpilot
03:50pm
<water> a simplified version of r4rs with no UI handles :(
<Fare> UI handles?
<Fare> not even r5rs?
<water> no graphics or os error-handling
<water> just as i thought... JVM for the palmpilot
<pyro> hehe.. you know a magazine sucks when all the writers say java is "sexy"
<water> i guess that i should just find the fastest mips-based handheld
<Fare> why hand-held?
<Fare> why not for isntance a laptop?
<water> because i can only use hand-held computers at work. nothing larger
<Fare> ok
<water> they're paranoid
<Fare> my main interface is the keyboard. I dunno how I'd do w/ a handheld. Or even with a tiny keyboard as the libretto's
<Fare> what about a libretto?
<water> i find styluses to be much better than small keyboards, even using virtual kb's
<water> i'm looking at that one, too
<water> the libretto probably wouldn't be kosher
<Fare> too big? too scary to your bosses?
<Fare> or not enough batteries?
<water> they're military types... if it looks like a laptop, they won't like it
<Fare> I'm waiting for 16MB of RAM and harddisk capability (thru PCMCIA?) before I purchase a handheld
<water> there's this tiny 586 machine from ibm i saw with that
<water> no, actually, it was 486
<water> but it had the ram and a 340mb pcmcia harddrive
04:00pm
<water> hmm... the libretto's too expensive, and i don't think i need another laptop
<Fare> might be interesting...
<water> i can't believe that i can buy a used handheld for about $100 that can run a smalltalk environment
<water> the only drawback is battery life
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<Fare> battery life is _very_ important for a handheld
<water> yeah
<water> hi liar
<pyro> damn, how'd I get 10.5k/s?
<pyro> hey liar, are those butane soldering irons any good?
<liar> pyro: i like mine
04:10pm
<pyro> is it hot enough to solder to sheet metal, etc?
<pyro> i thought it would be good for radio work
<liar> its hot enuf to cut a hole thru yer hand :)
<pyro> cool, I'll try it on my brother
<liar> its as hot as my ac soldier iron
<liar> s/soldier/soldering/
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<pyro> at least it should be better than the piece of crap I have now
<ElGato> pyro: i finally took the time to check out those forth tutorials you sent me
<pyro> hehe
<ElGato> i have come to the conclusion that forth is rather kick ass
04:20pm
<water> it is pretty cool
<ElGato> and way more powerful than c
<ElGato> ahhh shit!
<ElGato> i gotta go again
<ElGato> this is fucked up
<ElGato> :\
<ElGato> ok...i'll be back in like 20 minutes
<ElGato> later
<pyro> yup
<water> k
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<water> bye all
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<pyro> see ya
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<pyro> what the hell, i'll stick around 
<pyro> i've been thinking..
04:30pm
<pyro> i've seen lots of 'object oriented' programming at work.. you know, like this: DataBaseObject.SelectFrom(DataBase.Inventory.Qty, '<10')
<pyro> it makes for really voluminous source code
04:40pm
<pyro> just in case anyone had any doubts, it SUCKS
<pyro> :)
<pyro> the way we do things in forth, c, assembly, etc, is better.
<smkl> no module system and single namespace is better?
<pyro> actually Forth has a nice way of handling it-- multiple dictionaries
<pyro> we could elaborate on that concept
<smkl> how are multiple dicts used?
<pyro> the interpreter searches through a list of dictionaries
<pyro> and you can change that list easily, in the middle of your program
04:50pm
<pyro> I could use an elegant way to deal with conflicting names, in different modules
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<pyro> heh.. javanet sucks
<pyro> since they sold out to rcn, anyway
<pyro> hmm..
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<pyro> how's javanet? sucks heheh?
<pyro> apparently they've stopped maintaining their modem pools
<hcf> jn isnt great, but nothing is
05:00pm
<pyro> hey let's start building that underground radio network
<pyro> high capacity
<pyro> just think.. some people have been using 56k and up, for years..
05:10pm
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<ElGato> ah shit
<ElGato> pyro is gone
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<eihrul> seems so
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06:10pm
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<billyboof> hello
09:10pm
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<liar> eihrul: yes?
<eihrul> liar: was wondering if i could peek at some of your code?
11:50pm
[msg(TUNES)] newlog 1999.0814
IRC log ended Sat Aug 14 00:00:01 1999