IRC log started Thu May 27 00:00:01 1999
[msg(TUNES)] permlog 1999.0527
-:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us321.javanet.com] has joined #tunes
-:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving)
!koontz.openprojects.net!! Remote CONNECT forward.openprojects.net 8004 from ^lilo
-:- _ruiner_ [nate@ppp404.wi.centuryinter.net] has joined #tunes
<_ruiner_> abi: leonado dicaprio?
<abi> i haven't a clue, _ruiner_
<_ruiner_> abi: Leonardo Dicaprio will be killed by ruiner before he has a chance to infect the Star Wars movies
<_ruiner_> abi: leonardo dicaprio?
<abi> leonardo dicaprio is, like, the fourth Hanson brother
<_ruiner_> doh!
01:20am
!irc.linux.com!! Received :forward.openprojects.net SERVER koontz.openprojects.net from forward.openprojects.net !?!
-:- _ruiner_ [nate@ppp404.wi.centuryinter.net] has left #tunes []
-:- Netjoined: varley.openprojects.net koontz.openprojects.net
-:- Fare [rideaufr@esmeralda.enst.fr] has joined #Tunes
<Fare> hum.
-:- BlackPhoenix [black-phoe@adm.univd.kharkov.ua] has joined #tunes
<BlackPhoenix> anybody home?
<Fare> yes
04:40am
<BlackPhoenix> Well, if you know, I write the specification of Uniform Abstract Language... And I was invited for collaboration. Question is what we can do together?
<Fare> have you read the TUNES pages?
<Fare> have you a URL for your project?
<BlackPhoenix> Yes, I have read and while I have no clear ideas about your project. It is because our aims are intersected in many points. And many features looks like very similar...
<BlackPhoenix> URL is http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Facility/2320/ua/
<BlackPhoenix> In general, I have received a letter from David Manifold... He have visited my pages.
* Fare/#Tunes is back
<BlackPhoenix> btw, irc shows not correct my e-mail
<Fare> BP: which is yours?
04:50am
<BlackPhoenix> Mine... what? e-mail?
<Fare> yup
* Fare/#Tunes hates geocities
<BlackPhoenix> either that is indicated at the pages or ygheimth@adm.univd.kharkov.ua
<BlackPhoenix> I don't like it too... But it is good for home page...
-:- SignOff Fare: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Fare[esmeralda.enst.fr])
05:00am
* BlackPhoenix/#tunes wait for Fare
-:- Fare [fare@balance.wiw.org] has joined #Tunes
<Fare> hum
<Fare> lotsa network problems today
<BlackPhoenix> I see. What's hum?
<Fare> hum is a noise you make when you scrape your throat
-:- SignOff BlackPhoenix: #TUNES (Ping timeout for BlackPhoenix[adm.univd.kharkov.ua])
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<BlackPhoenix> oops, I was disconnected too...
-:- SignOff BlackPhoenix: #TUNES (Ping timeout for BlackPhoenix[adm.univd.kharkov.ua])
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<smoke> hi.
05:20am
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-:- SignOff BlackPhoenix: #TUNES (Ping timeout for BlackPhoenix[adm.univd.kharkov.ua])
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<Fare> kjk7~hkuh
<AlonzoTG> fare: 
<AlonzoTG> In france are you allowed to adjust the fuel mixture on your lawnmowers?
<Fare> I have no idea.
<Fare> I suppose you can, but can be held responsible for damages.
<Fare> Also, it may void your warranty (or not?).
<Fare> Why do you ask?
06:00am
-:- SignOff AlonzoTG: #TUNES (Ping timeout for AlonzoTG[216.164.224.235])
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-:- Netjoined: lucas.openprojects.net sterling.openprojects.net
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-:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (Excess Flood)
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-:- BitchX+Deb1an: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [lucas.openprojects.net]
* Fare/#Tunes broke the network with a talk process!
<Fare> :( :( :( :(
06:20am
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-:- Netjoined: lucas.openprojects.net sterling.openprojects.net
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-:- SignOff AlonzoTG: #TUNES (Read error to AlonzoTG[216.164.224.235]: Connection reset by peer)
-:- SignOff smoke: #TUNES (Read error to smoke[195.96.123.14]: EOF from client)
!wichert2:*! pandora.debian.org / nonus.debian.org is going to now, should be back and on the 6bone in 10 to 15 minutes
!wichert2:*! euh, going down now 
!wichert2:*! pandora.debian.org is back online, and is connected to the 6bone again
-:- irc [rideau@quatramaran.ens.fr] has joined #Tunes
-:- SignOff irc: #TUNES (Connection reset by pear)
-:- varley [madore@quatramaran.ens.fr] has joined #tunes
<Fare> david: tu peux changer de pseudo avec /nick GroTeX
-:- varley is now known as GroTeX
<GroTeX> Ah, je vois.
<Fare> felicitations pour ton premier message.
09:40am
<GroTeX> Merci.
<Fare> la commande /msg te permet de parler a une personne en particulier
<Fare> (essaie /msg Fare coucou!)
<Fare> abi: hi!
<Fare> G: abi et TUNES sont des robots. Nous sommes seuls.
<GroTeX> Des robots?
<GroTeX> Ils sont soumis aux 3 lois de la robotique?
<GroTeX> Ils servent a quoi?
<Fare> oui, par construction: comme ils sont incapables de faire quoi que ce soit, ils sont a fortiori incapables de faire du mal a qui que ce soit
<Fare> abi: what is abi?
<abi> rumour has it i am the little girl borg with a big brain or #tunes' personal little whore or an infoslut or gaklosmontic or flurivostuginuous or xyvarestoplik or an Artificial Idiot or braindead
<Fare> abi: what is TUNES?
<abi> somebody said TUNES was in my head or tunes is a useful nevertheless expedient system. or at http://tunes.org/ or a free reflective computing system or to programming languages what the internet is to computer networks.
<GroTeX> ARGH!
<GroTeX> Je suis calme!
<Fare> abi est un robot qui se souvient de choses idiotes.
<Fare> TUNES retient tout ce que tu dis contre toi, dans des logs.
<GroTeX> Hmmm...  Passablement GroTeXe tout ca.
<GroTeX> Bon, ou en etions-nous ?
<Fare> n'est-ce pas?
<GroTeX> Completement.
<GroTeX> Bref, talk, c'est le bordel.  Et vraiment le bordel *integral*.
<GroTeX> CA EXISTE, CA ?
<Fare> bien sur!
<GroTeX> Ou est-ce que c'est cree au vol ?
<Fare> devine!
<Fare>  /join #quatra
<GroTeX> Bon, j'essaye.
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09:50am
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-:- SignOff _ruiner_: #TUNES (Leaving)
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-:- SignOff FareWell: #TUNES (Connection reset by pear)
-:- Connection closed from irc.us.openprojects.net: Success
-:- Use /Server to connect to a server
-:- Connecting to port 6667 of server irc.us.openprojects.net [refnum 0]
-:- BitchX+Deb1an: For more information about BitchX type /about
-:- Welcome to the Internet Relay Network TUNES (from carter.openprojects.net)
-:- Your host is carter.openprojects.net, running version u2.10.04.resolv9.nmt.egcs4.tok.pten.tlim4.admin.upper4.whisper3.gipl.modeless7 (from carter.openprojects.net)
-:- This server was cobbled together Sun Jan 24 1999 at 15 50:17 EST(from carter.openprojects.net)
-:- carter.openprojects.net u2.10.04.resolv9.nmt.egcs4.tok.pten.tlim4.admin.upper4.whisper3.gipl.modeless7 dioswkfcg biklmnopstv 
-:- [local users on irc(24)] 7%
-:- [global users on irc(145)] 41%
-:- [invisible users on irc(211)] 59%
-:- [ircops on irc(18)] 5%
-:- [total users on irc(356)]
-:- [unknown connections(0)]
-:- [total servers on irc(35)] (avg. 10 users per server)
-:- [total channels created(96)] (avg. 3 users per channel)
!carter.openprojects.net Highest connection count: 34 (33 clients)
-:- Mode change [+f] for user TUNES
-:- Mode change [+iws] for user TUNES
-:- JOIN activated by "TUNES #tunes tunes@bespin.dhs.org "
-:- TUNES [tunes@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #tunes
-:- [Users(#Tunes:4)] 
[ TUNES     ] [ AlonzoTG  ] [ Fare      ] [ abi       ] 
-:- Channel #Tunes was created at Sun Feb 28 08:48:06 1999
-:- BitchX+Deb1an: Join to #tunes was synced in 6.873 secs!!
-:- Mode change [-s] for user TUNES
-:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us210.javanet.com] has joined #tunes
* AlonzoTG/#tunes greets "Salutations hcf!" :-)
* Fare/#Tunes says "Oh no!"
-:- Tril [dem@sloth.wcug.wwu.edu] has joined #TUNES
-:- mode/#Tunes [+o Tril] by ChanServ
<Fare> Tril!!!
<Tril> foo. somehow I got shuttled over to EFnet.
<Tril> (while I was gone )
<Fare> EFnet?
<Tril> yeah, it's the default server for the irc client on this host
<Tril> you know, the big irc network
<Tril> the unreliable one where everyone always fights over channels
<Fare> yeah yeah
<Fare> was there LOOONG ago when it was still liveable
12:10pm
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-:- BitchX+Deb1an: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [lucas.openprojects.net]
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<binEng> whee
<Tril> bin!
<hcf> Eng!
<binEng> I'm here and sitting on a nice connection :)
<Tril> what';s that mean anyway
<binEng> um?
<Tril> your name
<hcf> s/name/nick/
* binEng/#tunes gets the feeling Tril and hcf are the same person
<binEng> ok, I'll tell you. It's short for binary engineer
>>> binEng [andman4@195.84.234.31] requested PING 927833179 from #tunes
<Tril> i'm sure traceroute will reveal that hcf and tril are different
<binEng> But you must admit you filled in each other quite well (or, hcf did)
<hcf> tril's in wa. im in .me
<AlonzoTG> om
<Tril> well, distance is no barrier to telepathy
<binEng> :)
<hcf> or mind control
<Tril> shut up :)
<Tril> I am immune to mind control
<binEng> oh. I see...
<binEng> but hcf?
<abi> hcf is probably mailto:nef@tunes.org, http://www.tunes.org/~nef/ or halt and catch fire (see: http://wombat.doc.ic.ac.uk/foldoc/foldoc.cgi?Halt+and+Catch+Fire)
<binEng> yah, thanks for nothing abi
<Tril> abi Scientology?
<abi> wish i knew, tril
12:30pm
<Tril> abi, no you don't want to know.
<Tril> scientology is mind control
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<hcf> damn, some win98 mag took over mcstories.com
<hcf> ironic
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<Tril> what was mcstories
<hcf> stories w/ mind control
12:40pm
<Fare> abi: scientology?
<abi> scientology is mind control
01:00pm
<hcf> whats a 'metacircular evaluator'?
<Tril> ooh something cool
<Tril> meta-circular means something is written in itself.
<Tril> so a m.c. evaluator is an evaluator that can evaluate its own source.
<Fare> the evaluator that never returns is metacircular
-lilo(lilo@varley.openprojects.net)- [GlobalNotice] Hi all.  We'll be upgrading some servers to the latest version over the next few minutes.  If you're on a server, you'll receive a notification.  Otherwise the outages should be fairly brief.  Thanks!
<Tril> so I am wrong?
<Fare> no you're not
<Fare> your definition is exact.
<Fare> maybe you should add it to the glossary?
<Tril> we need a glossary maintainer!
<Fare> we needs split the glossary in individual files, just like news...
<Tril> yup
<Tril> didnt do that yet
<Fare> hum. Gotta go. Be back in an hour.
<hcf> it should be available as both 1 file and individual
<Fare> will you be there?
<Fare> hcf: sure
<Tril> no I will likely be gone
<Fare> hcf: trust me about that :)
<Tril> but I may come back
<Fare> Tril: well, any particular question/comment/suggestion at the moment?
<Tril> about glossary/news/?
<Fare> or something else...
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<Tril> no :)
<Fare> I proposed to write a sexp-based system in guile, so we can later migrate to tunes more easily. do you agree?
<Tril> bye
* Fare/#Tunes is away (messages logged)
<Tril> do you propose to write it, or that it be written?
<Tril> If you write it, fine, but if I write it, I may not use guile.
01:10pm
<Tril> (or any lisp at all)
<Tril> i may lean toward SQL/php3 actually
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01:20pm
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-dilbert(lilo@varley.openprojects.net)- [ServerNotice] In just a moment we will be restarting this server to upgrade it.  Service should be unavailable briefly and then should be right back! Thanks!
-:- Connection closed from irc.us.openprojects.net: Success
-:- Connecting to port 6667 of server irc.us.openprojects.net [refnum 0]
-:- Closing Link: TUNES[206.63.100.13] by lucas.openprojects.net (Ping timeout for TUNES[206.63.100.13])
-:- Connection closed from irc.us.openprojects.net: Success
-:- Use /Server to connect to a server
-:- Connecting to port 6667 of server irc.us.openprojects.net [refnum 0]
-:- BitchX+Deb1an: For more information about BitchX type /about
-:- Welcome to the Internet Relay Network TUNES (from norton.openprojects.net)
-:- Your host is norton.openprojects.net, running version u2.10.05.18.(ipcheck4-5) (from norton.openprojects.net)
-:- This server was cobbled together Wed Apr 28 1999 at 13 24:47 EDT(from norton.openprojects.net)
-:- norton.openprojects.net u2.10.05.18.(ipcheck4-5) dioswkfcg biklmnopstv 
-:- [local users on irc(4)] 1%
-:- [global users on irc(144)] 41%
-:- [invisible users on irc(209)] 59%
-:- [ircops on irc(15)] 4%
-:- [total users on irc(353)]
-:- [unknown connections(0)]
-:- [total servers on irc(34)] (avg. 10 users per server)
-:- [total channels created(95)] (avg. 3 users per channel)
!norton.openprojects.net Highest connection count: 14 (13 clients)
!norton.openprojects.net Welcome to Open Projects!  You are on 2 ca 1(2) ft 14(14).
-:- Mode change [+f] for user TUNES
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-:- JOIN activated by "TUNES #tunes tunes@bespin.dhs.org "
-:- TUNES [tunes@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #tunes
-:- Topic for #TUNES: Leonardo Dicaprio as Anakin? check Slashdot
-:- topic set by _ruiner_ [Wed May 26 23:20:31 1999]
-:- [Users(#Tunes:7)] 
[ TUNES     ] [ AlonzoTG  ] [ binEng    ] [@Tril      ] [ hcf       ] 
[ Fare      ] [ abi       ] 
-:- Channel #Tunes was created at Sun Feb 28 08:48:06 1999
-:- BitchX+Deb1an: Join to #tunes was synced in 7.877 secs!!
-:- Mode change [-s] for user TUNES
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<loqutous> is tunes for real?
01:40pm
<loqutous> is it just academic vaporware?
<Tril> we'll have to see won't we
<Tril> that's what us members are trying to find out :)
<hcf> we WILL reify it
-:- loqutous [pirch@btec-fw.certco.com] has left #tunes []
-lilo(lilo@varley.openprojects.net)- [GlobalNotice] Forward will be restarted in a moment.  It's a hub, so expect some brief confusion.  Thanks.
* Tril/#TUNES  is away: (afk) [BX-MsgLog Off]
-^lilo(lilo@varley.openprojects.net)- [GlobalNotice] Expect some more bumps as we restart varley, since it is a hub and for some reason people use it more than the other servers.  This might be a good time to check http://opirc.nu/ for a server closer to you. ;)
01:50pm
!netgod:*! varley? fear
-^lilo(lilo@varley.openprojects.net)- [GlobalNotice] Here we go.
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-:- BitchX+Deb1an: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [varley.openprojects.net]
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-:- Fare [fare@balance.wiw.org] has joined #Tunes
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-:- ChanServ has changed the topic on channel #Tunes to: www.tunes.org
-:- binEng [andman4@195.84.234.31] has joined #tunes
<AlonzoTG> y0
-lilo(lilo@varley.openprojects.net)- [GlobalNotice] Hi again all.  This will do for now, we'll continue upgrading the servers a bit later.  Thanks for your patience and understanding.
02:00pm
-:- SignOff binEng: #TUNES (Leaving)
!scoop_:*! any of the opers alive?
!doogie:*! this is just a dream
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<Pamcho> 
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<AlonzoTG> om
03:00pm
<Fare> mu
<hcf> omicron
03:10pm
<AlonzoTG> =)
<AlonzoTG> topick?
03:20pm
-:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving)
-:- billyboof [hatefull@nrwc-sh7-port45.snet.net] has joined #tunes
<billyboof> hi
<Fare> lo
04:10pm
<billyboof> hows it going?
<AlonzoTG> B00F!!!
<billyboof> ALONZO!!!
<billyboof> wtf? :)
<billyboof> hey al,
<billyboof> have you read on IA64?
<AlonzoTG> not really...
<AlonzoTG> =\
<billyboof> i just did at work today...
<billyboof> it's going to be mid-2000
<Fare> bb: so what's in IA64?
<Fare> is it really interesting, or just more bloat to keep things so complex that no one can follow them?
<billyboof> going to be 64bit of course, more 3d gfx and math shit...
* Fare/#Tunes is moderately impressed by 64bit, and completely unimpressed by either 3D or "math"
<billyboof> http://developer.intel.com/design/ia64/devinfo.htm
* Fare/#Tunes loathes pseudo-"math" as well as 3D
04:20pm
<AlonzoTG> hmmz...
<billyboof> i just want it cause that'll let you have 16384 TB of addresses... <instead of 4GB>
<billyboof> with that you'd be able to make the entire filesystem memory mapped and demand paged..
<AlonzoTG> hehe
<billyboof> whats funny? :)
<Fare> sure. But although a 64-bit address space is nice
<Fare> 1) I'm unconvinced that solving that problem in hardawre is a good compromise
<Fare> and 2) you still have to do things in software anyway, if you want a robust system that really covers the world
<Fare> I'd much prefer a small 32-bit architecture that doesn't eat gobs of power and allows for long-life battery-powered palmtops
<Fare> like, StrongARM
04:30pm
-:- SignOff billyboof: #TUNES (Ping timeout for billyboof[nrwc-sh7-port45.snet.net])
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-:- _QZ has changed the topic on channel #Tunes to: www.tunes.org || You might be a Redneck Jedi if you hear... "Luke, I am your father...and your uncle"
-:- SignOff AlonzoTG: #TUNES (Have Nice Day :))
-:- HickServ [thrustit@209-68-229-56.dialup.cust.tfb.com] has joined #tunes
-:- AlonzoTG [Alonzo@209.122.216.93] has joined #tunes
<HickServ> hello al my good friend
05:20pm
<HickServ> :)
<AlonzoTG> y0
<AlonzoTG> :)
<HickServ> blarg
<HickServ> sup
<HickServ> ?
<AlonzoTG> My car is worth about $300 as a tradein. :((((
<AlonzoTG> I am looking at custom carz...
<AlonzoTG> I HATE new cars.
<AlonzoTG> =\
<HickServ> heh
<HickServ> hows da number thoery
<HickServ> i was studying some last night
<AlonzoTG> been worrying about my nekst computer and keepin my piece of junk car on the road...
<HickServ> oh
<HickServ> i've been worrying about my next one too
<HickServ> im getting it in june
05:30pm
<HickServ> :)))
<HickServ> no more 486
<AlonzoTG> I'm puttin new wheels on my kar; old onez are bent...
<_QZ> why dont u get a job? then u can get a new car and new computer
<AlonzoTG> =\
<AlonzoTG> I got class to go to...
<AlonzoTG> no thyme for job.
<_QZ> what u lazy?
<_QZ> i worked full time and went to school full time
<_QZ> and still had time for a life and plenty of sleep
<HickServ> well im too young to be employed
<HickServ> so im free of having to get a job
<AlonzoTG> I do need job though...
<_QZ> HickServ: how old are u?
<HickServ> how old do you think i am?
<_QZ> i assumed u were old enuf to be employed
<HickServ> im 14
05:40pm
<HickServ> so you basically thought i was over 16?
<_QZ> well older
<HickServ> yes
<HickServ> :|
<_QZ> im gone
<HickServ> bye
<AlonzoTG> topick?
<HickServ> how old did you think i was al?
<AlonzoTG> nicks are ageless
-:- Beholder [beholder@ppp-031.m4-1.osh.ican.net] has joined #tunes
<HickServ> yes
<HickServ> good
<Beholder> Hey Hick
<HickServ> i hate it when eople judge me by my age
<HickServ> hello
<HickServ> wb
<Beholder> Age is not a factor when we are communicating over a faceless medium ;)
<HickServ> i mean by ability though
<Beholder> How so?
* AlonzoTG/#tunes greets "Salutations Beholder!" :-)
<AlonzoTG> Its official
<HickServ> well you know like i can't code cause im not that ld or some crap
<AlonzoTG> I have been talked into doing a P-mode prototype so long as I don't have to write a p-mode kernel...
05:50pm
* Beholder/#tunes greets Alonzo... "Hey"
<Beholder> Coding well is something that takes experience.  (at least from what I've seen).  If you do it long enough you get good at it.
<HickServ> of course
<HickServ> but i don't want peole judging me soley on age
<HickServ> or that my ideas aren't worth listening too\
<HickServ> that's a fallacy
<Beholder> Not fallacy, it's reality.  Even if you are good at something and you are young, the majority is not.  Therefore it's prudent to judge and be proved wrong.  Hell it's a good bet 99% of the time ;)
<HickServ> well there is still the 1%
<Beholder> Yes there is :)  And that's why there's chaos in the universe... if thoes damn young people would just sit down and be dumb like there supposed to... hehehe ;)  (joke)
<HickServ> :(((
<HickServ> hhehe
<HickServ> oh well
<HickServ> i have to prove myself
<HickServ> and that's what im working to do
<Beholder> I'm only 22... which is probably only a few years away from you... and If you knew me in real life (vs this IRc life :), I act probably closer to your age :)  Never need to prove anything.  I know what I know, and I am satified with that.
<HickServ> yeha
06:00pm
<HickServ> well im 14 am in junior high with a bunch of people who want to be nothing but social
<Beholder> That's what it's like at 14! :)  
<HickServ> really
<HickServ> oh well
<Beholder> I hated being 14... worst time of my life
<HickServ> yeah i hated elementry school more though
<Beholder> That came in a very close 2nd ;)
<HickServ> hehehe
<Beholder> It gets bad till about 18 or 19... then people start growing a brain (not to say they have one yet... just starting)
<HickServ> or begin to notice that there populairity doesn't mean jack shit :)
<Beholder> I means a whole hell of a lot to them at 14... :(  They don't know their ass from a hole in the ground, so they try to form a life around the people they interact with on a daily basis.  Torturing the weak and idolizing the strong (that changes too... heheh).  My high school was only interested in sports... not good for someone like myself (at 14)
<Beholder> When the concept of college/university looms, all of a sudden everything they valued gets tossed
<HickServ> preciously
06:10pm
<Beholder> But for you thats a few years away... 
<Beholder> So anyone seen the new star wars (getting off the topic ;)
<AlonzoTG> om
<Beholder> omm
<Beholder> What does your "om" mean?
<_QZ> funny how both orange juice and apple huice have bad tastes but when u mix them 50/50 it tastes good
<HickServ> i think they taste better with a little vodka:)))
<Beholder> They both taste fine on their own...
<Beholder> Just gotta get the right kind
<Beholder> (not vodka... oj and aj)
<HickServ> :(
<HickServ> oh well
<_QZ> well oj is too tart and aj is whatever it is
<_QZ> dry
<Beholder> QZ: What brand names of Oj do you have down there?
<_QZ> wf and minute maid
* Beholder/#tunes lives in Canada... everything is different
06:20pm
<_QZ> minuate maid tastes like real oranges
<Beholder> QZ: No Sealtest?  That's my favorite. Never bitter
<_QZ> but it has a slight tang like texture to it which i dont like
-:- SignOff AlonzoTG: #TUNES (Ping timeout for AlonzoTG[209.122.216.93])
<HickServ> it tastes better to make your own
<Beholder> Minute Maid sucks... it's chemicals ;)
<_QZ> i dont know what brands we have here, i only know what brands i have had
<Beholder> Hick: You're right.  It always does.
<_QZ> wf tastes like home made oj if u vaporize some of the water after squeezing the orange
<Beholder> So they taste good together (aj & oj)?  Never tried it.
<Beholder> I like Gingerale with Oj.  
<_QZ> ya they counteract the flaws in each other
<Beholder> Actually you might have Old South down there too... but it's really bad... 
<Beholder> Is it true your Mountain Dew down there has Caffene?
<HickServ> uh
<HickServ> yeah
<HickServ> a lot
<Beholder> We don't have any citrus based drinks with cafeene.... something about government regulations... psychotropic drugs and children... blah blah.. hehe
<HickServ> canadian law is weird
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<Beholder> We do however have Jolt Cola... which is pretty harsh.  
<AlonzoTG> om
<_QZ> heh
<_QZ> ah jolt
<HickServ> the law against hacking in canada used to be stealing electricity
<Beholder> Yes it is... I could go on about the CRTC... but I won't...
<_QZ> jolt comes in handy when u wait until the last minute to do a paper in school
<HickServ> i prefer coffee
<Beholder> Yes! Canada does recognize that information is NOW also stored in that electricity... heheh
06:30pm
<Beholder> Canadian laws are very strange... but they are usually country wide, so I guess that makes it better (there are no exceptions to federal law... unlike the US)
<HickServ> yeah
<_QZ> i wanna move to texas, they have the make my day law :)
<HickServ> the us was so regional in the beggining though so it's ok
<HickServ> what's that qz?
<_QZ> anyone on yer property has their life in yer hands
<_QZ> u can blow em away 
<HickServ> wow
<HickServ> where you live?
<_QZ> mailmen dont enter ppls yards
<Beholder> It's very strange from our point of view (although it might just be brain freeze from the cold), that SOME parts of the country think that killing people/babies/prisoners is ok... and some don't?!
<_QZ> i live in utah
<HickServ> oh
<_QZ> in utah a person can break into my house kill my family, fall down my stairs and then sue me
<Beholder> QZ: That's the same here
<_QZ> Beholder: which one?
<abi> which one is better?
<Beholder> QZ: Sorry my girlfriend corrected me... if they have a weapon... they're meat
<Beholder> QZ: The same law you have in Utah
<_QZ> nope, they can have a weapon and brutally kill my family and sue me after falling down my stairs
<_QZ> but in texas u can sit on yer porch and blow away anyone that steps on yer property
<Beholder> QZ: It used to be that way... but there was an overiding older law that stated: If he's got a weapon... you're not liable... just get him INSIDE the house.  If he's on yer lawn, your liable...
<_QZ> sit there and call neighbor kids into yer yard... :)
<_QZ> "hey u want this candy bar?"
<_QZ> BANG
<_QZ> :)
* Beholder/#tunes nearly pissed himself laughing at that...
<_QZ> only problem is that stupid accent they got
<Beholder> Actualy provinces can't make a whole lotta laws.. just new taxes
<Beholder> I guess it's easier when we only have 36 million people here... vs... 380 mill there?
<_QZ> its all the canadians migrating to the US
<Beholder> QZ: Only to Florida... all the other states are boring ;)
<HickServ> no
<HickServ> California is nice Beholder
06:40pm
<_QZ> utah isnice
<_QZ> utah is also known as silicon valley II
<abi> okay, _QZ.
<HickServ> landlover
<Beholder> I believe you :)  I've only been to Florida myself (when I was 15... long time ago)
-:- SignOff Tril: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Tril[sloth.wcug.wwu.edu])
<Beholder> We drove there... so I guess I've been to more than Florida ;)  But Michigan was dull... Georga was dull... Kentucky was... well... dull.  But we only drove through, so I could be wrong
<_QZ> chicago is bad
<_QZ> dont know about the rest of the state but chicago is bad
<_QZ> they are on some lake
<Beholder> QZ: I was reading a book about the Chinese immigrants... apperently they were only accepted in California.  (they were not well liked in Chicago)
<_QZ> and the shore is lined with refineries and the water is full of crap
<_QZ> buildings look like swiss cheese
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<_QZ> kentucky is weird
<Beholder> QZ: I wouldn't swim in any of the great lakes... ick
<_QZ> ofcourse i was on a bus going thru all those states so maybe greyhound just routed the bus thru shitty parts
<Beholder> Actually... I'm just north of Lake Ontario right now.  We get our tap water from it... lots a chlorine to clean it up I think
<_QZ> hahah
<_QZ> i get my tap water from the mountains
<Beholder> Must taste pretty good
<_QZ> ya but i still run it thru a brita filter
06:50pm
<Beholder> As do I
<Beholder> I'm not sure if they do it down there, but they add Chlorine and Florine to the water here
<_QZ> ya they do that everywhere
<HickServ> i don't filter mine
<HickServ> tap water is the best water
<_QZ> HickServ: tastes better if u do
<Beholder> Even though Flourine has been proven to actually incur tooth decay in large quantities...
<Beholder> ... excatly what it was put there to prevent
<_QZ> this is weird
<_QZ> the tar gzip of my brix directory grew larger overtime but then dropped
<Beholder> QZ: Sorry... I was just checking your version... did it crap out on you?
<Beholder> QZ: Oh... never mind then :)
<Beholder> QZ: What linux distro are you using?  (2.0.34 kernel?)
<_QZ> r7=453k, r8=518k, r9=117k, r10=753k, 0.0.1=315k
<_QZ> ya
<Beholder> brb
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<_QZ> im using caldera's CND 1.0 (redhat 2.1) upgraded to 2.0.34
07:00pm
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<_QZ> hola
<_QZ> i am uploading more docs
<tcn> cool
<tcn> hehe.. nice topic
<_QZ> :)
<_QZ> this sucks, i am backing up all the important stuff so i can install redhat 6
<tcn> haha
<tcn> I thought you had 7 computers
<_QZ> something like that
<_QZ> what does that matter
<tcn> what are you backing up to?
<_QZ> defiant
<tcn> oh ok
<_QZ> im gonna burn cds
<_QZ> i really should have permanent copies of my scripts that i have made over the years and use everyday
<_QZ> like pimp3
<tcn> hey I'm gonna get a 3rd computer soon.. you know of a good MB to get?
<_QZ> if it says asus its good
<tcn> my p-133 is an intel mb.. it sucks
-^lilo(lilo@varley.openprojects.net)- [GlobalNotice] Hi all.  We'll be reupping some more servers to perform an upgrade.  We'll notify on a per server basis and occasionally globally for hubs.  Thanks.
<_QZ> borg is a p75(90) with a tmc super7 board
<_QZ> runs great
<tcn> the cmos clock is always messing up, and it drains a lithium battery every 4 months
<_QZ> well ok so borg has a clock problem but that aint that bad :)
<_QZ> Fri May 28 11:05:21 MDT 1999
<tcn> as long as you leave it running it won't mess up :)
<_QZ> so its a day fast, and i reset it each month
<tcn> just put 'rdate defiant' in /etc/rc.something
<tcn> rc.local, i mean :)
<_QZ> defiant is win98 :)
<tcn> but it's gonna be linux soon, right?
<_QZ> noo
07:40pm
<tcn> which one is the SMP?
<_QZ> p0wer is my linux workstation, borg is my linux server. i am upgrading p0wer from redhat 2.1 to redhat 6
<_QZ> defiant is smp
<_QZ> brb
-dilbert(lilo@varley.openprojects.net)- [GlobalNotice] 
-dilbert(lilo@varley.openprojects.net)- [GlobalNotice] Oops, sorry!
07:50pm
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<tcn> bummer, we lost atg :)
<_QZ> heh
<tcn> it's funny how they change things between linux kernel versions..
<_QZ> what things?
<tcn> in 2.0, my printer was /dev/lp1.. in 2.2, it stopped working because it became /dev/lp0
08:00pm
<_QZ> heh
<tcn> another time (1.1.something) I had to upgrade all my ps-utils
<tcn> another time, update --> bdflush
<tcn> back in the day :)
<_QZ> do u have the 2.2 src handy?
<tcn> yeah, 2.2.3
<_QZ> does it have awe32 support?
<tcn> i think I saw it.. lemme check
-^lilo(lilo@varley.openprojects.net)- [GlobalNotice] Hi all.  Tolkien will be restarted in a moment.  Expect gibson, fontana and asprin to take a moment to reconnect.  Thanks.
<_QZ> i have to patch 2.0.34 with awe32 support but redhat 6 has 2.2.7
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<_QZ> just wondering if i need to save the awe32 patch and isapnp stuff
<tcn> guess not
<tcn> it's not in there
<_QZ> damnit
<tcn> I swear I saw it somewhere
<tcn> anyway, gotta run
<tcn> take it easy..
-:- SignOff tcn: #TUNES (tcn has no reason)
<_QZ> same here
-:- SignOff AlonzoTG: #TUNES (Ping timeout for AlonzoTG[216-164-239-203.s584.tnt10.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com])
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08:10pm
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<HickServ> hello
<_QZ> hi
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<HickServ> who is the guy on the mailing list who lives in la jolla?
<_QZ> where is the setting to disable core dumps kept?
<HickServ> beats me
<HickServ> i don't really like unix
<hcf> HickServ: Maneesh Yadav
<HickServ> yeah
09:00pm
<HickServ> i can't access my damn email address
09:10pm
<_QZ> :)
<HickServ> may i ask what this file is about?
<_QZ> my friend who went paintballing with me last saturday just emailed that to me
<HickServ> a rather annoying gif it is
<HickServ> what's an infix pointer?
<_QZ> uhh
<_QZ> infix means the operator is between its operands
<_QZ> where is the term used?
<HickServ> http://www.tunes.org/LLL/index.html
09:20pm
<HickServ> brb
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09:30pm
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<HickServ> back
* Tril/#TUNES is back from the dead. Gone 27 hrs 30 min 55 secs
<HickServ> so whats your anylisis mr spock?
<HickServ> buenas toches senor tril
<_QZ> HickServ: ask tril
<HickServ> ah nevermind
09:40pm
<_QZ> Tril: do u know where the setting is located that disables core dumps?
<HickServ> i'll just go back to making myskef faint
<_QZ> u can set the max size of core dumps
<Tril> _QZ no, if that is the same setting that enables core dumps, I wish I knew how to
<hcf> ulimit
<_QZ> hcf: thanks man
<_QZ> where is that kept?
<Tril> _QZ it's internal to the shell
<Tril> help ulimit|less
<Tril> bash, that is
<_QZ> hmm its not in any of my bash files
<hcf> ulimit -c <size>
<_QZ> ya i know
<_QZ> im just trying to find where i set it to 0
<hcf> oic, hav fun
<_QZ> ah /etc/profile
<hcf> should be set b4 that
<_QZ> well redhat 2.1 had it set to 1meg in there
09:50pm
<HickServ> i wish hotmail would get to grips with themselves and stop using nt servers
<_QZ> did they switch back to nt?
<HickServ> i thought they always used em
<HickServ> i mean they make nt
<_QZ> no
<_QZ> before hotmail was bought by m$ they used freebsd
<_QZ> when m$ bought them they converted to nt
<HickServ> oh
<_QZ> but it crashed so much that they went back to freebsd
<HickServ> well nt sux0rs 
<HickServ> i see
<HickServ> smart decision
<_QZ> atleast i think they went back
<_QZ> hotmail never crashed with freebsd
<_QZ> its first crash was after they moved to nt
<Tril> Server: Apache/1.3.6 (Unix) mod_ssl/2.2.8 SSLeay/0.9.0b
<Tril> not much use but they are running "Unix"
<Tril> I'm sure they have it written on their page somewhere but i'm not looking :)
<HickServ> i found an ebay box that uses freebsd 
<_QZ> m$ probably modified their web server to say it was apache and unix and then tell everyone they are running freebsd so ppl think that freebsd sucks
<HickServ> i found it by using netstat on my isp
<Tril> why would ppl think that
<_QZ> m$ tactic to make ppl think that
<HickServ> evil
<_QZ> make an nt server look like freebsd so ppl see it crashing all the time
<HickServ> i still don't undrstand this concept of a "turing compatable" language
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* BlackPhoenix/#tunes come and wait someone to talk with
<Tril> hick: Uhh.. any introductory book on computer science theory should cover it
<Tril> BP hello
<HickServ> funny since im studying thoery of computaion
10:00pm
<BlackPhoenix> hi
<Tril> Hickserv: where? in a class? what did you cover so far?
<Tril> BP what do you want to talk about?
<HickServ> mabye since im only on context free grammars i don't know the first thing about turing machines
<HickServ> that's it! ;)
<HickServ> um i read from my brother's text book
<HickServ> im gonna read about turing machines tonight
<Tril> hick I'm sure it's in the same book.
<HickServ> yes
<BlackPhoenix> I don't know. As I understand you have questions about UA... So, I am ready to answer. If it is wanted.
<Tril> oh, hello, it's you :)
<Tril> i'm the one who e-mailed you
<_QZ> any1 know where the ctrlaltdel binding is set?
<Tril> My first question is, what stage is development of UA?  Are you ready to implement it?
<BlackPhoenix> Hmm... Yesterday I talking with Fare... And maybe you get know about it.
<Tril> _QZ /etc/inittab
<_QZ> ah thanks
<BlackPhoenix> Well, I have Java applet which builds navigational tree after UA constructions. And then we can get values according to an expression.
<Tril> i  should look at that sometime.. I have no java on this computer
<Tril> is there a way to run Java without graphics?
<HickServ> jdk
<Tril> BP: Is your applet graphical?
<BlackPhoenix> Yes, jdk... If mere text would be fine...
<BlackPhoenix> Applet is always graphical but I can make just a program
<Tril> don't do it right now unless it's really easy.
<Tril> What do you think of the info on the TUNES page?
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10:10pm
<BlackPhoenix> I think that our pages could be supplementary to each other... imho. Because both talk about what computer system should be. But you try to do it on the base of existing approaches. I try to do it completely anew...
<Tril> well, tunes talks a lot about doing it differently from existing approaches
<BlackPhoenix> I see. But, all in all, I guess you thoroughly analyze existing approaches. Or, am I not right?
<Tril> I think we tried to.  There is a good analysis of existing approaches in the Arrow paper, where it talks about Procedural, Functional, OO, and Declarative models.
<HickServ> wow my first post on the mailing list
<Tril> We are taking the good things from Functional, OO, and Declarative
<Tril> (As different views of the same system)
<HickServ> meh hates java
<BlackPhoenix> Yup, I try to realize computer system as a mean of representation of the world. So, in certain degree, I am based my researches not on programming...
<BlackPhoenix> what meh is?
<HickServ> hmmmm i've never actually multithreading in c
<HickServ> i should have used me
<Tril> you should have said "I hate java"
<HickServ> yeah but i felt like being shakespearean :(((
<Tril> BP: "meh" comes from the way some people pronounce "me", in one dialect.
<BlackPhoenix> but while java is the only way to program something to be seen by all... in any platform... disappointing, right?
<BlackPhoenix> Aaa... Meeeeeeeeeee?
<Tril> BP: Is Java really available on more platforms than any other language?  I don't think so.
10:20pm
<BlackPhoenix> I mean ready to use programs, not code of a program...
<BlackPhoenix> Do you mean something specific? perl? I like it too... But, anyway, java is somewhat other direction...
<Tril> it's not the only way.  Maybe quicker, since it comes with the web browser.
<Tril> squeak has a bytecode, too, and is portable to many platforms
<BlackPhoenix> I haven't never heard about it... :( Although I read newspapers, magazines, surfs in Internet...
<BlackPhoenix> who or what supports it?
<Tril> BP: Nobody supports it, Squeak has no warranty.
<Tril> There is also LISP and there are companies to support that
<BlackPhoenix> Well, I think there a lot of examples. But almost everyone has a browser but should I guess a person like LISP or Squeak or something else?
<Tril> Java is ok
<HickServ> hmmmm
<HickServ> mabye
<BlackPhoenix> Leave this discussion. I know it may turns out truly long. Let's speak about UA or TUNES.
<HickServ> it's just like an interpreted c++ though
<HickServ> yes
<HickServ> i agree
<BlackPhoenix> right
<BlackPhoenix> and it is fine
<Tril> it could be a lot worse, if Microsoft was doing it instead of Sun
<BlackPhoenix> I don't understand what TUNES is? Non-profit organization, company, project? And if there are projects, peoples who engaged in it do it as a freelance or in leisure time?
<Tril> there is no formal organization, no company or non-profit yet.
10:30pm
<BlackPhoenix> then what?
<abi> well, then what is the compile-time feature indicating a linux system?  #+linux  ?
<HickServ> don't lsiten to abi
<HickServ>  he's a blabering bot
<Tril> Fare's job is to do research, and he is directing his research so it will be useful to TUNES.
<Tril> I am a student, and I'm directing my studies to work on TUNES as well.
<Tril> But mostly it is from free time, yes
<hcf> HickServ: abi iz a she
<HickServ> im a little punk who aims puberty at tunes
<BlackPhoenix> Can I ask such question... If research works last almost from 1994, is there some results?
<Tril> there are beginning to be results. But our difficulty is communicating using language. The system we want to describe is too complex to write in words, although some of us think we have a picture in our minds of how it will work.
<Tril> That is why I have recently encouraged people to begin programming their ideas, instead of only writing about them, so we can communicate by showing people instead of being frustrated in the explanation.
<Tril> When you invent a new system from scratch, there are no names for all the parts.
<BlackPhoenix> then you MUST to examine UA. I have feedback it is interesting for some people... And they agree it accords to many aims I describe in the spec...
<BlackPhoenix> As a collaboration, successor of XML or something else
<BlackPhoenix> As I have written in yesterday letter UA could be a language for managing all sort of data, code, information, and definitions within a computer system, and as a protocol for accessing to them outside it.
10:40pm
<Tril> how about for between humans?
<BlackPhoenix> the right question, it could be such one... namely so, I try to base it not only on programming
<HickServ> hehehe
<HickServ> ow
<HickServ> oh sorry
<HickServ> hehehe
<Tril> abi feel free to attack hickserv at any point
<HickServ> yes indeed
<BlackPhoenix> and I use arithmetic operations so it would be like a constructor for building... I mean it is easy way to build something: simply to take values and combine them with mere 4 operations...
<HickServ>  i have too windows open
<BlackPhoenix> realize programming LEGO where you can build everything you want with ease...
<HickServ> you know how the x86 has many operattions like add and adc i think it would be goood if all of them were in the lll if we go the x86 route
<BlackPhoenix> well, maybe I am too fancy... :)
<HickServ> i mean it isn't just + - * /
<HickServ> there are many lower opertaions
<HickServ> i don't know
<HickServ> that's why im writing my own lll :)
<BlackPhoenix> I mean arithmetic operations only by symbols - + * / but in general they could have other meaning
<HickServ> well in most architectures + - *and / are still abstractions
<HickServ> especially cisc
<BlackPhoenix> if looking at 2 + 2 is not only 4 in result but also connecting with some logic this two values, isn't?
10:50pm
<BlackPhoenix> 2 apples plus 2 pears is not the same as 2 apples plus 2 apples... ;)
<HickServ> well that isn't an issue
<HickServ> we're talking about something a bit different
<Tril> Hick did you study regular languages before the context-free ones?
<Tril> they have two operators, + and *
<HickServ> of course
<HickServ> they have contecation, union, and star
<BlackPhoenix> nope, it's issue. And if you want - could be "or" and + "and"
<BlackPhoenix> but to understand it better you should understand what I mean under pairs of subject - object. Today, I will send you a letter where I give additional explanations...
<BlackPhoenix> if someone don't know I am in Europe...
<BlackPhoenix> my accent should show it ;)
<Tril> BP: How far are you from Kiev?
<Tril> we have two list members there..
<Tril> well, wait
<BlackPhoenix> 500 km or about 300 mile (I guess) to east
<HickServ> i really must go
<HickServ> good bye
<HickServ> russian?
<HickServ> are you?
<BlackPhoenix> well, ukrainian
<HickServ> ah
<HickServ> im an 8th russian
<HickServ> my great grandmother migrated from russia to germeny
<HickServ> germany 
<HickServ> well gotta go
<HickServ> laterz
-:- SignOff HickServ: #TUNES (bye)
<Tril> there is Victor with the APRIL project: http://comcon.kiev.ua/~victor/
11:00pm
<_QZ> ahhh i got all my files tar gzip'd and just need to copy them to defiant and then i get format and reinstall
<_QZ> what fun
<BlackPhoenix> I will check it out... and what he is doing?
<Tril> he isn't a member of TUNES, but his project is a unified software system. Unfortunately he doesn't give out much info about it...
<Tril> you know, some people are afraid people are going to steal their ideas.
<Tril> I say, let them. ideas are for sharing anyway, right?
<_QZ> i dont want anyone stealing my ideas :)
<Tril> I had better go also.  Maybe I will look at UA java applet tomorrow. I will talk to you about it later.
<_QZ> cya
-:- SignOff _QZ: #TUNES (BRiX [http://www.qzx.com/brix] :: sleep)
<Tril> have fun everyone
* Tril/#TUNES  is away: (AFK) [BX-MsgLog Off]
<BlackPhoenix> bye
-:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving)
11:10pm
* BlackPhoenix/#tunes is awaiting Fare
-:- SignOff BlackPhoenix: #TUNES (Ping timeout for BlackPhoenix[adm.univd.kharkov.ua])
-:- BlackPhoenix [black-phoe@adm.univd.kharkov.ua] has joined #tunes
[msg(TUNES)] newlog 1999.0528
IRC log ended Fri May 28 00:00:00 1999