IRC log started Sun Feb 21 00:00:00 1999
[msg(TUNES)] permlog 1999.0221
ωνω SignOff yery: #TUNES (Ping timeout for yery[benetnash.ffke-campus.mipt.ru])
12:10am
ωνω NetSplit: norton.openprojects.net split from koontz.openprojects.net [12:56am]
ωνω BitchX: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [norton.openprojects.net]
ωνω yery [ost@benetnash.ffke-campus.mipt.ru] has joined #Tunes
<yery> hello
<abi> what's up, yery
<yery> abi: nuthin'
06:10am
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<smkl> hello yery
<yery> smkl
07:20am
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<Fare> Gakuk
<smkl> hi Fare
<yery> Fare
<Fare> :)
08:00am
ωνω SignOff yery: #TUNES (Ping timeout for yery[benetnash.ffke-campus.mipt.ru])
ωνω linuxuser [linuxuser@bjas1-p20.telepac.pt] has joined #tunes
<linuxuser> oh, TUNES.ORG cool !! :)
<linuxuser> Hi !!
08:30am
<linuxuser> I have a homepage too, on : crazylinux.staticky.com ( dynamic IP !! )..... :)
ωνω yery [ost@benetnash.ffke-campus.mipt.ru] has joined #Tunes
<linuxuser> with information about my HeavenOS Project...
<linuxuser> eih!! anyone here....
<yery> linuxuser
08:40am
<linuxuser> hi yery!!
<yery> hello!!!
<linuxuser> yery : Are you a OS developper or something...??
<yery> linuxuser: no.  I'm chatting with abi here.
<linuxuser> oh
<linuxuser> sorry :)
<yery> linuxuser: :)
<linuxuser> If someone like new OSes, will like mine #### HeavenOS ####....
<linuxuser> for more information see the page crazylinux.staticky.com eheheheheh.... :)))))
<yery> what is this?
<yery> linuxuser: and then?
<yery> linuxuser: I see no links to any OS there
<smkl> http://crazylinux.staticky.com/os_project.html
08:50am
<yery> smkl: thank you
<linuxuser> I said you will like mine not other.... if someone want me to put some credits of some OS around have to ask me !! :)
<yery> linuxuser: buzzwords :)
<yery> "Heaven OS Main Features"
<linuxuser> you only saw that in the page???
<yery> linuxuser: 3 of them
<linuxuser> one title and two links, no ??
<yery> linuxuser: exactly
<linuxuser> you know, the page is still in BETA, ... so, you get the links???
<smkl> linuxuser: how will heavenos be better than linux?
09:00am
<linuxuser> more userfriendly, mainly!!
<smkl> uhh. you could make linux more userfriendly easily
<linuxuser> only if you know how!!!! that is the problem...only the crazy linux people know how the things work!! :)
<yery> lol
<linuxuser> lol??? what that means??
<smkl> laughing out loud
<yery> linuxuser: that means that I'm laughing
09:10am
<linuxuser> laughing??? ... hummm, if you are wondering about my english, ... I am Portuguese !! :)
<yery> linuxuser: I am Russian myself :))
<linuxuser> eheheh, ok, so what you mean with laughing???....
<yery> linuxuser: there is no need to make Linix more userfriendly, and even there is a need, you can do it in Linux itself without rebooting
<yery> oh, even IF
<linuxuser> you said myself, yah!! you are right, I can do, and you can do.... but many people dont do, why?? because they dont know how??? Even they read the HOWTOS, its so compilcated for them to do anything on LINUX, you are seeing what I want to say???
09:20am
<smkl> you can make more userfriendly distributions
<linuxuser> pheraps, but is not only that, I dont like on LINUX, even I loveing many features of LINUX...
<linuxuser> I agree on this : The LINUX is a great OS for developping another OS, because we can do anything on it (almost)...
<linuxuser> there are a lot of programs for it and for us work around it...
<linuxuser> is because that, that I am developping the HeavenOS on it, we are free to do anything on it, FREE.....:)
09:30am
<Fare> Gakuk
π Fare/#Tunes is back
<yery> hello, Fare
<Fare> privet, yery
<Fare> what's heavenos?
<linuxuser> If someone want to help me developping it, please go to my page and write there!!! :)
<linuxuser> So, how is the TUNES and UNIOS Project, anything new??
09:40am
<smkl> of course there is nothing new
<smkl> there are completely zero interesting things this week
<Fare> smkl: have you read my second article, lambdaND?
<smkl> second lambdand?
10:00am
>>> smkl [sami@ppp56.dial-in.verkkotieto.com] requested PING 919618929 113531 from #tunes
<smkl> what reification function does?
<smkl> are your lambdand functions like cc_nondet in mercury?
<linuxuser> good luck with your TUNES OS Project, .... bye 
<smkl> see you linuxuser
10:10am
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<smkl> hello _QZ
ωνω SignOff linuxuser: #TUNES (changing servers)
10:20am
<yery> can I say that robot is "a person"?
<_QZ> uh
<Fare> you can say whatever you want.
<Fare> We're on a free Internet!
<yery> _QZ?
<abi> well, _QZ is the creator of BRiX, and webmaster of http://www.qzx.com
<Fare> smkl: yes, mercury does non-determinism
<yery> Fare: :(
<Fare> only it doesn't support real parallel evaluation, and requires finite-time failure so as to cut a branch 
<Fare> why :( ? you should rejoice! :)
<yery> no, Fare.  may hope was that robots are not persons.
<smkl> and what is reification function?
<Fare> *eve*n* if they are not, you *can* say that they are
10:50am
ωνω SignOff smkl: #TUNES ()
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<tcn> Fare: What is a reification function, anyway?
11:20am
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ωνω mate [mate@visio.c3.hu] has joined #Tunes
<mate> Yep! I'am Mate from .hu & I would like to talk someone who have some time on me.
[mate(mate@visio.c3.hu)] Hi! I'am Mate Birkas from Hungary & I'd like to talk someone about the relations between TUNES & my development.
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12:20pm
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<nerdly> hi 
01:10pm
ωνω SignOff nerdly: #TUNES (Read error to nerdly[1Cust229.tnt1.farmingdale.ny.da.uu.net]: Connection reset by peer)
ωνω NetSplit: jordan.openprojects.net split from sterling.openprojects.net [02:56pm]
ωνω BitchX: Press Ctrl-F to see who left Ctrl-E to change to [jordan.openprojects.net]
ωνω Netjoined: jordan.openprojects.net sterling.openprojects.net
ωνω yery [ost@benetnash.ffke-campus.mipt.ru] has joined #Tunes
<_QZ> "The #TUNES IRC channel is a great way to discuss the status of the project."
ωνω _QZ has changed the topic on channel #TUNES to: TUNES is dead. Long live BRiX
05:00pm
<_QZ> ExoPC source is 50meg
<_QZ> thats a bloated OS
05:20pm
<Fare> QZ: nope. It comes with binaries, and lots of applications, too
<Fare> it's not just the kernel
<Fare> (maybe it's still bloated, but not because of the 50MB CVS)
ωνω Fare has changed the topic on channel #TUNES to: Reflective Computing System - http://www.tunes.org/
05:30pm
ωνω Kor [kor@pm-ppp198.triton.net] has joined #tunes
<Kor> kool
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06:00pm
<Kor> abi?
<abi> Kor?
<Kor> who is thee Fairy King?
<abi> wish i knew, kor
<Kor> good guess :P
06:10pm
<Kor> Kor?
<abi> you are not typing good english today(english IS my first language)
07:10pm
<_QZ> Kor: were u dropped on yer head as a child?
π Kor/#tunes cracks QZ on the head with his fairy rod, buahaha
07:30pm
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>>> dino [dino@pm-ppp86.triton.net] requested PING 919639280 357704 from #tunes
<_QZ> any1 know anything about car tires?
08:30pm
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<AlienMess> hello?
<AlienMess> @locate you
<_QZ> hello, what brings u to #tunes?
<AlienMess> i was hoping someone woould be talking about tunes
<AlienMess> I put up a new linux install and was trying to set the benefits
<_QZ> tunes is dead
<AlienMess> are there any mp3 sites?
<_QZ> uhh
<_QZ> tunes is an operating system
<_QZ> not music
<AlienMess> wow, like linux,beos, or what?
08:50pm
ωνω SignOff AlienMess: #TUNES (changing servers)
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!koontz.openprojects.net!! Remote CONNECT norton.openprojects.net 8005 from lilo
ωνω KeLp_awaY [kelp@feynman.physics.wwu.EDU] has joined #TUNES
!brin.openprojects.net!! Remote CONNECT jordan.openprojects.net 8005 from ^lilo
ωνω SignOff _QZ: #TUNES (BRiX [http://www.qzx.com/brix] :: sleep)
[msg(TUNES)] newlog 1999.0222
IRC log ended Mon Feb 22 00:00:00 1999
IRC log started Sat Aug 21 09:53:41 1999
[msg(tunes)] newlog 1999.0221
IRC log ended Sat Aug 21 09:53:45 1999
IRC log started Sat Aug 21 09:53:45 1999
[msg(tunes)] permlog 1999.0221
* Tril/#TUNES is back from the dead. Gone 13 hrs 12 min 42 secs
<hcf> hoy dem
<Tril> hi
<hcf> any personal mail responses yet?
<Tril> no
<Tril> i think the group is going to consist of me, and the all ideas will come from you
<Tril> which will suck!
<Tril> noit your ideas, but that i will have to do them by myself
10:00am
-:- overfien [overfiend@m239.telcomplus.net] has joined #tunes
<overfien> y0h
<Tril> hi
<Tril> I see abi is not replying to every "hi"
<hcf> Tril: at least ur willing to step up, its better than noone listening to me ;)
<AlonzoTG> om
<hcf> Tril: the hi thing today is coincedental
<hcf> Tril: its fixed in gail tho
<hcf> brb
<Tril> hi
<abi> que tal, Tril
<Tril> hi
<Tril> hi
<abi> que tal, Tril
<Tril> hi
<Tril> hi
<abi> hi, Tril
<Tril> hi
<Tril> hi
<abi> hello, Tril
<Tril> hi
<Tril> hi
<abi> hey, Tril
-:- abi was kicked off #TUNES by Tril (for being stupid)
-:- abi [nef@bespin.dhs.org] has joined #TUNES
10:10am
<AlonzoTG> =\
<hcf> Tril: so basically the result of the coord group is that u replace beholder
<AlonzoTG> beholder wansn't showing up here...
<hcf> AlonzoTG: he's been too busy
<AlonzoTG> still I would like to hear what he has to say for himself...
<AlonzoTG> =(
<AlonzoTG> whats he upto?
<Tril> it is?
<hcf> AlonzoTG: no sure
* AlonzoTG/#tunes hasto leaf for werk soon too....
<Tril> well, that hasn't been decided yet
<hcf> Tril: u may wanna look into the field of CMCW
<Tril> abi: CMCW?
<abi> it has been said that CMCW is Computer Mediated Communication and Work
<hcf> aka groupware
<Tril> an utterly non-descriptive field name
<Tril> does it include games?
<Tril> should be CMCWP
<hcf> useful perhaps for coordinated development of games
<Tril> ha ha ha
<Tril> I just typed in "some search terms" in google and hit "I'm feeling lucky". It sent me to HTTP://www.yahoo.com.
<Tril> (because I hit "I'm feeling lucky" on a blank search and it told me to enter some search terms)
10:20am
-:- SignOff Tril: #TUNES (Tril has no reason)
-:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving)
-:- hcf [nef@me-portland-us126.javanet.com] has joined #tunes
-:- lar1 [LARMAN@1Cust199.tnt31.sfo3.da.uu.net] has joined #tunes
<lar1> Hola
<lar1> hcf:  Tnx for the link
<hcf> np
11:00am
-:- lar1 is now known as lar_away
-:- water [water@ppp-tnt-166.tscnet.net] has joined #tunes
<water> hey all
<hcf> hey one
<water> it's amazing how lucent i get if i drink just a few glasses of wine
<water> (and no more, of course ;)
11:10am
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<fizban> Anyone know of a server+channel on asm programming for linux?
<water> hmm
<water> well, Fare is a nasm co-developer, so he would know if he were here
<fizban> thanks anyway .. just getting back into asm and trying to get a stupid hello world program to run ....
<fizban> it builds, links, then segfaults ... ;-)
<water> oh
<water> hehe
<fizban> I'll check on irc.linux.*
<water> try #linpeople
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11:30am
<water> brb
-:- water [water@ppp-tnt-166.tscnet.net] has left #tunes []
11:40am
-:- SignOff overfien: #TUNES (Leaving)
-:- lar_away is now known as lar1
<lar1> How does one pronounce Semaphore?
01:20pm
<eihrul> i always pronounced it sem-a-four
<eihrul> could be seam-a-four, who knows :)
<lar1> :)
<lar1> Question about them, would it make sense to have multiple semaphores, one for each device?
<lar1> Like a harddrive one, a sound card one, etc
<eihrul> depends...
<eihrul> but in most cases, i'd say yes
<lar1> Thats what I thought
<lar1> Or else you'd endup with threads blocked that didn't need to be
<eihrul> only need semaphores to ensure only a certain number of threads are accessing a resource at once
<eihrul> and most of those resources aren't mutually exclusive
<lar1> So how can I tell what devices need their own semaphore?
<eihrul> when a thread can possibly interrupt another thread's work in bad ways
<lar1> Whouldn't that happen with any device that can be written to?
01:30pm
<eihrul> most of the time
<eihrul> but sometimes threads are only reading from a device
<eihrul> and you can in most situations have any number of readers
<eihrul> and very very few writers
<lar1> If the thread where to be reading, it would not call the up function, right?
<eihrul> you mean down?
<lar1> If it was reading it would not touch the semaphore
<lar1> Because reading doesn't need protection
<eihrul> but if you could only allow a certain number of readers
<eihrul> you'd use semaphores :)
<lar1> Ok
* lar1/#tunes has felt quite enlightened the past few days
01:40pm
-:- SignOff eihrul: #TUNES (Ping timeout for eihrul[usr5-ppp49.lvdi.net])
-:- SignOff Fare: #TUNES (Ping timeout for Fare[esmeralda.enst.fr])
-:- Fare [rideaufr@esmeralda.enst.fr] has joined #Tunes
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<eihrul> that stunk
<lar1> Yes
01:50pm
-:- SignOff lar1: #TUNES (Leaving)
-:- SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Ping timeout for hcf[me-portland-us126.javanet.com])
-:- SignOff smkl: #TUNES (Ping timeout for smkl[MCCCLXIX.rdyn.saunalahti.fi])
-:- Mr_Wrong [seanl@adsl-63-192-213-146.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #tunes
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<pyro> hey
* AlonzoTG/#tunes left clicks on pyro
* AlonzoTG/#tunes ignites a flamethrower and eyes pyro
<eihrul> you have a flamethrower and all you can do is eye him?
<pyro> what's up alonzo, I was just about to flame you
<AlonzoTG> om
<pyro> hey, what's your web site now/
<pyro> ?
-:- ultima [ultima@user-37kb9si.dialup.mindspring.com] has joined #Tunes
<pyro> whoa, long time no see
04:00pm
<AlonzoTG> users.erols.com/alangrimes/
<pyro> oh yeah
04:10pm
-:- liar [brand@p0wer.qzx.com] has joined #tunes
<pyro> liar!!
<liar> pyro!
<pyro> 2 minuts? holy crap
<liar> pyro: do u use the hardware cursor in retro?
<pyro> in textmode
<ultima> doodoodoo
<ultima> i use the hardware cursor
<liar> my stinking cursor aint working
<ultima> bummer
<liar> and i copying the code from a book
<ultima> double-bummer
<liar> s/copying/copied
<liar> pr: what file has yer code in it
* ultima/#Tunes wields his Hardware Cursor
* ultima/#Tunes smashes liar's code with it.
04:30pm
* ultima/#Tunes watches the cursor memory become accidently overwrriten,and change into a floating nipple.
<pyro> you got ralf brown's interrupt list?
<liar> no
<pyro> vgadoc?
<liar> ya
<pyro> ok it's in there, look at the VGA ports.. there are 6 for the cursor
<liar> where is yer code?
<pyro> CRTC index A-F
<liar> i have the cursor ports
<pyro> it's on tunes.org.. cvs, ftp, http
<liar> i have retro in my bespin account
<liar> i asked what file its in
<pyro> are you positioning it by X and Y??
<pyro> it's in kernel/display.inc
<ultima> hmm
<ultima> retro?
<abi> retro is at http://bespin.cx/~tcn/retro.html
<ultima> wtf is retro?
<pyro> my os
<ultima> abi burn in hell
<ultima> duh
<pyro> abi: no, retro is at http://tunes.org/~tcn/retro/
<abi> okay, pyro.
<ultima> abi: retro is at http://sex.com
<abi> ...but retro is at http://tunes.org/~tcn/retro/...
<ultima> abi: no, retro is at http://sex.com
<abi> okay, ultima.
<ultima> hmm
<ultima> cool
<ultima> abi: no, retro is at http://tunes.org/~tcn/retro/
<abi> okay, ultima.
<pyro> heh
<liar> dpop?
<pyro> haha
<pyro> sorry :)
<liar> wtf is that?
<pyro> a macro for forth
<ultima> pyro is retro written in forth?
<pyro> it would be 0push/0pop in machine forth
<pyro> a mixture of forth and assembly
<ultima> cool
<ultima> what forth compiler?
<pyro> retro-forth
04:40pm
<ultima> you wrote one then?
* ultima/#Tunes is writing a forth compiler.
* ultima/#Tunes wrote a crappy one a while ago.
<liar> crap, i have to goto my sisters stinkin bday party
<ultima> liar bahahahahah
<ultima> how old is she?
<liar> how the fuck would i know
<ultima> heh
<ultima> lameass
<liar> i know how old i am, but i dont give a flip about anyone else
<eihrul> age sucks anyway...
<ultima> yer like 12, aren't you?
<ultima> =)
<liar> pyro: u are using constants for the screen size, bad boy
* ultima/#Tunes laughs
<ultima> pyro is a bad bad bad bad boy
<ultima> but he wrote a forth compiler so he can't be all that bad
<liar> the screen object in brix can adjust the text screen size
<eihrul> variables... wow :)
<eihrul> if only other operating systems had them...
<liar> eihrul: do u feel like dying today?
<eihrul> not necessarily, no
<pyro> I do
<eihrul> do u feel like a restraining order today?
<pyro> but liar, do you have a fat loader?
<liar> eihrul: u cant have one placed on me if yer dead
<liar> pyro: fat loader?
<eihrul> assuming you're not dead first...
<liar> eihrul: oh we dont have to worry about me dying first
<eihrul> but you're like 20 something...
<liar> hmm, yer using 3d4/5 andthis stupid book has 3b4/5
<pyro> haha
<liar> eihrul: and immortal
<pyro> monochrome
<eihrul> so is malaclypse...
<pyro> anyway, I was sick of dealing with disk images so I just made it load the kernel from a dos disk
04:50pm
<liar> oh my kernel has always been loaded from my ofs format
<liar> the bootsector can read the ofs format and it loads the setup and kernel 
<ultima> malaclypse suck
<ultima> i didn't know he was immortal
<ultima> so when I wasted his ass I got wasted
<ultima> I figured he was like guildmasters in other muds who just give you 1million xp for a kill
<liar> crap i have to be to her place in 6 minutes
<liar> guess i better start getting ready
<pyro> later
<pyro> heh.. junkie
<liar> damn i need a shower :)
<liar> how much cash say i dont give a flip about u but says im not cheap? 
<eihrul> $20
<liar> hahah
<eihrul> $10 if you want to emphasize the flip but play up the cheap
-:- SignOff smkl: #TUNES (sleeping ...)
<pyro> haha
<pyro> $.02
05:00pm
<liar> well that says im a tight ass and i dont give a flying flip at all about u
<eihrul> get a gift certificate
<liar> ohhhh that would piss her off
<eihrul> to 7-11
<liar> amazon.com
<pyro> I hate those fucking certificates
<eihrul> exactly...
<liar> well im 2 minutes late and i have a 10 mile drive
* liar/#tunes is GONE ( gone )
<pyro> it's like saying "i'm too thoughtful to give you just money so I'll give you funny money"
<eihrul> that's kind of the opposite of what he was going for...
<eihrul> maybe if he just pulled the $20 right out of his wallet...
<eihrul> in front of her face
<eihrul> could even throw it on the ground
<pyro> haha
<pyro> food is my favorite kinda gift )
<eihrul> but that would say he cared enough to actually go and buy it...
<pyro> or make it
<pyro> but I'm just sayin', that's what I respect
<pyro> I hate when I get books about shit I'm not interested in
05:10pm
<pyro> hehe
<pyro> find the lousiest book on your shelf, the one that still looks new 'cause it's never been read, and give that to her :)
<pyro> hmm let's see, Boolean Algerbra looks good
<eihrul> but... why would you give that away?
<eihrul> just pull some reader's digest out of the bathroom
<eihrul> but actually... there's no reason we should be getting gifts in the first place
<eihrul> so even the fact of getting something, whether it sucks or not, is unwarranted
<pyro> you so sure about that?
<pyro> ever read that article about how hackers live in a "gift culture"?  that's us right?
<eihrul> yeah...
<eihrul> but is his sister a hackre?
05:20pm
-:- lar1 [LARMAN@dialup-209.245.141.50.SanJose1.Level3.net] has joined #tunes
<ultima> gift culture?
<ultima> bullshit
<pyro> whoa, lar1, long time no see!
<ultima> to be honest true hacker culture is more like a bunch of rich people
<ultima> they are very giving and show-off-ish towards other rich people
<ultima> but they treat lesser beings like dirt often
<lar1> pryo, yes!
<ultima> =)
<lar1> pyro, I've been hanging out here a little more often lately, I got faily buisy
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<pyro> ultima: hackers don't take their riches from lesser people
-:- SignOff lar1: #TUNES (Ping timeout for lar1[dialup-209.245.141.50.SanJose1.Level3.net])
<pyro> if you're talking 'professional' programmers, they're overpaid.
<pyro> I know some who make over $100k
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<pyro> u live in san jose?
05:30pm
<lar1> I am in San Jose
<pyro> so is it really crammed full of computer stuff?
<pyro> ;)
<lar1> Its a cool place!
<lar1> Ok here it goes.... build 0.1.2 of my boot block... hope it works
<eihrul> but like... what about the rest of the kernel? :)
<pyro> who cares if you can't load it
<lar1> Exactly pyro
<eihrul> gah
<pyro> I just spend a day rewriting my loader
<ultima> gah gah gah
<ultima> bbl
<ultima> mowing lawn =)
<pyro> heh
<lar1> Hrmph!
* pyro/#tunes doesn't have a lawn
<lar1> It didn't work
<lar1> Stupid triple fault!
<pyro> you trying to hit pmode already?
<lar1> If I want to far jump I do db ea dw seg dw offset right?
<lar1> pyro:  Yup
<pyro> what assembler? nasm?
<lar1> Yes
<lar1> I calculated the physical address of the code I want to execute so I want to jump to 8:calculated address
<pyro> jmp sel:offset
<lar1> Hmm
<pyro> oh, jmp DWORD sel:offset
<pyro> you know that 'sel' is an offset into GDT, right?
<pyro> dough
<pyro> obviously;
<lar1> Right
<pyro>  /dcc it, i'll look it over
<lar1> Its _Really_ messy
<pyro> boot sectors are always messy
<lar1> it was all nice and neat... then I tryed to debug it... Oy veh
<pyro> heh
<lar1> I'll send it over but I claim no responsibility if you pass out at the sight of it ;)
<pyro> don't worry it's not Java
05:40pm
<lar1> :)
<lar1> Its suppossed to put a character in the corner of the screen and go into an infinite loop
<lar1> ignore the paging stuff
<lar1> and most of the comments... they are outdated
<pyro> mov ax, 0x8.. I like that :)
<lar1> :)
<lar1> I figured it was better then inc ax 8 times ;)
<lar1> I never noticed it had a rhyme before... cool
<pyro> we should have a contest for the longest way to do something
<pyro> Rube Goldberg assembler
<pyro> rube goldberg machine code :)
<eihrul> but that would be no fun...
<eihrul> you could make a program output an infinitely long program
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<lar1> Heh
<eihrul> that eventually just did something :)
<pyro> yeah but you have to program it in machine code using a binary keypad
<eihrul> so... you could make the program in binary :P
<lar1> Therd be less typos... think 2 buttons!
<pyro> you would be allowed a 2-digit hex display
<eihrul> you could make images in hexadecimal...
<lar1> Ahh!  Don't scare me like that
<eihrul> enough people do it in obfuscated C contests
<pyro> make the program look like a picture?
05:50pm
<pyro> yeah, it has to be artistic *and* actually run
<pyro> it would be too easy in forth though
<pyro> : /- ; : :-) ; : ------------- ;
* lar1/#tunes doesn't know forth... but it sounds very useful
<pyro> what I just typed was a program
-:- SignOff zhlubbish: #TUNES (Ping timeout for zhlubbish[ip68-bamf.242.dyn.webbernet.net])
<pyro> bad zlubbish.. logged in as root!
<lar1> Whats it do
<pyro> nada
<lar1> :-)
<lar1> So hows my code look?
<pyro> in C it would be  /_() {}  :-)() {}  ----------------() {}
<pyro> ok I read through most of it.. lesse..
<pyro> to hang, use 'jmp short $'
<lar1> Whats the $ mean?
<pyro> 'current address'
<eihrul> pyr: that's not even legal C
<lar1> Ok
<pyro> $$ means 'beginning of section'
<pyro> you know, eventually you have to stop using CALL's wherever possible, and make spaghetti code
<lar1> Why?
<pyro> and doing things like 'xchg ax,si' instead of 'mov ax,si' to shave off a byte
<lar1> What can I use besides calls?
<pyro> spaghetti!
<pyro> well, you only use calls if you need to call a routine more than once
<eihrul> pyro: but xchg's are not pairable and cost 2 cycles extra :P
<lar1> 10 go to 20 goto 15 15 goto 30 30 print "hello"
<pyro> rofl eirhul
<eihrul> xchg's suck
<pyro> we're talking about a boot sector here
<lar1> pyro:  Why only if I need to call more then once?
<eihrul> but who says you can't have a fast boot sector?
06:00pm
<eihrul> eh?
<lar1> My boot sector needs to be fast
<pyro> lar1: cause the call & ret wastes space
<eihrul> and you're telling him to use xchg? the hypocricy of it all :P
<lar1> pryo:  So how would I implemnet this 'speghitti'?
<pyro> cut out the routine and paste it over the CALL (and delete the RET)
<eihrul> why not just use macros?
<eihrul> that way you have no-spaghetti, same ease of coding
<pyro> cause that's even more obfuscated
<eihrul> umm, no
<eihrul> spaghetti by definition is more obfuscated
<pyro> then you have to look back to the macro definition to see what regiser is being used where
<lar1> Icky icky goo!!!  I'd have to be on crack to do that... _0_ readability
<eihrul> pyro: macros have parameters
<pyro> lar1: ignore us :)
<lar1> Oh crap.. I was typing an ignore joke but it really did ignore... whats the uningore command?
<pyro> haha
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<pyro> Usage: /IGNORE  No Help available
<lar1> I think I got it now ;)
<pyro> I see all these commands like FUCK and FUCK'EM
<pyro> wow
<lar1> huh?
<pyro> so how do you unignore?
<pyro> I have UNBAN, UNSCREW, UNSHIT, UNFUCK, but no UNIGNORE
<lar1> Ohh
-:- SignOff zzeek: #TUNES (Read error to zzeek[98CF3B59.ipt.aol.com]: Connection reset by peer)
<lar1> Well I got it cause I can see you...
<pyro> so what's the joke?
<lar1> You think I'm gonna type it again... heh crazy this man is... nevermind
06:10pm
<pyro> just leave off the /
<pyro> I always appreciate a good joke
<lar1> Its not a good joke though... it gets a 10.0 on the stupid-joke-o-meter
<pyro> but man, I turned on the news yesterday and they had some LAAAAAAAAAAAME jokes
<lar1> Hehe
<pyro> you heard it too? :)
<lar1> No
<pyro> like that stupid atom joke.. "2 atoms walk out of a bar, one of 'em goes, aww crap, I forget my electrons, the other one goes, are you sure? yeah, I'm positive"
<lar1> I swear if my laptop was just a few degrees hotter it would melt the CDs I put in it
<lar1> Hehe
<pyro> think of all the battery power being wasted to keep your hands warm :)
<lar1> Yes
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<lar1> when I am cold I just put it on my lap
<water> cool. full house
<pyro> sort of
<water> lurkers?
<lar1> What constitutes a full house?
<ultima> nah
<ultima> lamers
<water> hehe
<pyro> hcf liar ultima mr-wrong fare abi tunes crimson plundis alonzotg... all MIA
<pyro> which leaves you, me, lar1, eihrul
<water> enough for me ;)
<pyro> sure
* hcf/#tunes watches
* lar1/#tunes wonders where hcf got his nick
<hcf> lar1: http://foldoc.doc.ic.ac.uk/foldoc/foldoc.cgi?Host+Command+Facility
<hcf> oops
<hcf> http://foldoc.doc.ic.ac.uk/foldoc/foldoc.cgi?Halt+and+Catch+Fire
<lar1> ok...
<pyro> didn't some old computers have miswired instruction circuits that burned up when you ran them?
<lar1> they gave off 5000 hcf ;)
<pyro> 'oops that puts 50A thru the buss'
<lar1> Wow... cool
<ultima> What? the m6800 hcf opcode?
<lar1> Do these things exist in new chips too?
<pyro> people used to sneak in at night and add new cpu instructions they thought would be cool
<ultima> that wuz a kewl opcode
<ultima> cus it could literally do it =)
<pyro> haha
* lar1/#tunes finds irony in the fact the m6800 could blow its own bus
06:20pm
<lar1> So hows the ol code look, pyro?
<pyro> enablePM: really obfuscated
<lar1> obfuscated?
<ultima> lar1 well
<pyro> all you need is mov eax,cr0; inc al; mov cr0,eax; jmp dword 8:whatever
<ultima> ack
<ultima> brainfucked assembler
<pyro> linpeople.. whatta buncha morons
<ultima> intel argh intel intel argh argh argh argh argh
<ultima> pyro yeah basically
<pyro> I just think of it like "mov eax=cr0"
<lar1> I didn't write that little part there... a friend of mine did... I just assumed it work and didn't care to change it ;)
<lar1> Plus when I add paging I will have to change the line anyway
<pyro> switch to paging later
<lar1> I will
<pyro> some people put it in the bootsector because they have room.. but a really good bootsector needs that space for other stuff
<lar1> I thought the thing worked, so I started adding paging... then I said, you know I should test this.  Good thing I did or I whould have thought the problem was in my paging code
<pyro> heh, so have you figured out how to load more sectors?
<lar1> hmmm, well I put it where ever there is room
<lar1> I know how to do it, but I want _this_ to work first
<pyro> yeah, pmode is the tricky part
06:30pm
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<pyro> lar1: check out http://users.erols.com/johnfine  ... all the boot* programs
<lar1> I don't want to use other peoples code
<pyro> no you can pick up lots of tricks from this guy
06:40pm
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<lar1> Yes, I know
<ultima> bootsectors are easy
<lar1> Mine triple faults and I don't know why
<eihrul> easy is like 5 second-no-brainer
<pyro> check out that pmcom program too
<lar1> Is my boot sector fixable?
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<pyro> sure
<lar1> ok
<lar1> good
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<pyro> just fix enablePM
<pyro> all you need is the jmp
<pyro> and of course the CR0 stuff
06:50pm
<pyro> heh, john already made a bootsector that does what I spent all day doing
<lar1> ummm
<lar1> _All_ thats wrong is the JMP
<pyro> the GDT could be buggy
<pyro> a type
<pyro> typeo
<pyro> typo
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<pyro> so does it work now?
<lar1> So the jmp should be JMP 8:address?
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<pyro> jmp dowrd 8:addr
<lar1> Ok... lemme pass it by the compiler ;)
<pyro> jmp dword 8:hang, in your program
<lar1> Why?  Doesn't need the physical address?
07:00pm
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<pyro> the label 'hang' will be filled in with the actual address
<lar1> They physical address?
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<pyro> and 'inc eax' is the best way to set PE (it's 1 byte)
<pyro> yes, the actual, physical, addresss
<lar1> ok
<lar1> BRB -- I'll test in just a sec
<water> lag :(
<pyro> death rock was a 50's thing??
<lar1> Works it does not
<pyro> make up yer mind
<lar1> Its broke
<pyro> compare it to john's bs
07:10pm
<lar1> Mabye I am writing it incorrectly
<lar1> debug bblock | w 100 0 0 1
<lar1> | meaning enter
<pyro> that's exactly right
<lar1> Hmm, ok, dinner time... I'll fix it after I eat
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07:20pm
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<ruiner> fucking computer
<pyro> kljsdflkja
07:30pm
<pyro> @#JAF(#F#@(hv4908hsv77(&*&GB*&^GV^B&#(*&C(&(*@C&!!!!!!!!~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<AlonzoTG> om
<AlonzoTG> had to take a nap....
<AlonzoTG> recovering from my job...
<pyro> how come you leave your computer on when you leave?
<pyro> I mean, on IRC
<AlonzoTG> rc5
<pyro> oh
<AlonzoTG> dunno really...
<pyro> give up already
<AlonzoTG> just like to idle....
<pyro> 64bits is plenty
<pyro> hmm
<AlonzoTG> I'm running windoze 3.11 so I gotta show off....
<AlonzoTG> =P
<pyro> I wonder if rc5 really uses a good factoring algorithm
<pyro> Back in about 1982 someone factored a 500-bit number in 32 hours on a Cray X-MP (which is like a 486, right? :)
<pyro> does that mean a K7 could crack your 2048-bit PGP key in 20 minutes?
<AlonzoTG> hmm
<AlonzoTG> all depends on the hacking algorithm...
<AlonzoTG> dnet is using a brute force technique...
<AlonzoTG> they could probably do better by using something faster...
<pyro> what a waste
<AlonzoTG> I agree...
<pyro> so who runs dnet? NSA?
<AlonzoTG> I set my client to work on the OGR problem before RC-5
<AlonzoTG> heh
<AlonzoTG> =P
<AlonzoTG> om
07:40pm
<pyro> OGR?
<AlonzoTG> Optimal Golumb ruler.
<ruiner> I hate computers
<ruiner> actually....I take that back
<ruiner> I hate the mix of computers and my friend dave...they don't mix
<AlonzoTG> =)
<ruiner> it always falls to me to fix things too
<ruiner> he was pretty pissed when I told him his new motherboard was hosed right out of the box
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<pyro> so what's OGR again?
-:- SignOff ruiner: #TUNES (Leaving)
07:50pm
<AlonzoTG> Optimal Golumb Ruler....
<AlonzoTG> Immagine a ruler with 3 "ticks"
<AlonzoTG> It is 5 units long...
<AlonzoTG> oops...
<AlonzoTG> well try to make a ruler with 3 ticks which no pair of them that are the same distance apart as any other pair.
<AlonzoTG> this is the golumb property...
<AlonzoTG> now make the shortest possible ruler with this property...
<AlonzoTG> this is a basic math problem, of intrest to human knowlege than some random number which is what RC5 looks for...
<pyro> i don't get it
08:00pm
<AlonzoTG> its on the www.distributed.net website...
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<AlonzoTG> explained fairly well there...
<AlonzoTG> glug!
<pyro> ok
<pyro> well I'm done for today
<AlonzoTG> party
<pyro> crash
-:- SignOff pyro: #TUNES (crasssssh)
08:10pm
-:- SignOff AlonzoTG: #TUNES (Have Nice Day :))
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<water> hello, korgrey
<KorGrey> hi
<abi> hoy, KorGrey
<water> don't mind the infobot
* KorGrey/#tunes remembers abi :P
<water> have we met?
<KorGrey> I dont think so... I was here quite a while ago, and not for very long
<water> well, anyway, if you'd like to talk, i'm here
<KorGrey> someone else was here working on briks
<water> BRiX? that'd be liar
<KorGrey> yeah
<water> he's away, i think
<water> abi: seen liar?
<abi> no idea, water
<water> darn i don't remember the syntax
<KorGrey> water: what in tunes are you most interested in?
<water> well, i have been working on my own project with goals larger than tunes
<water> but my project goals definitely satisfies tunes requirements
<water> s/satisfies/satisfy
<water> i guess the HLL is what i'm most into
<KorGrey> what HLLs present the best model currently in your opinion?
<water> ooh
<water> current HLLs?
<KorGrey> like Scheme/er Java/Lisp/SmallTalk :/
<water> probably 'core' lisp and self
<KorGrey> Scheme is very much "core" lisp
<water> but they still need a good amount of working over to reflect easily
<water> no, scheme has too many feature
<water> s
<KorGrey> I agree
<water> i have a lisp for smalltalk that i like because it is extremely simple
<KorGrey> I have been working on a minimal completely refelctive system, implemented on top an FPGA
<water> whoa! have you met Jecel?
<KorGrey> no
<water> holy cow
<water> abi: telll KorGrey about Jecel
<water> abi: tell KorGrey about Jecel
<water> abi: Merlin?
<abi> Merlin is at http://www.lsi.usp.br/~jecel/merlin/
<KorGrey> oh, I have heard of Merlin, ill check out the URL
<water> he's making the Self/R language and os
<water> it's a version of Self with an environment which supports reflection
<KorGrey> is there any source available?
<water> (better than Self reflectors and such)
<water> not yet, i think
<water> well, there is the parser
08:40pm
<water> for whatever it's worth (not much)
<water> he's going to release self/r for pc's as well
<KorGrey> I am writing my code for x86 right now too...
<water> what sort of language will it be?
<KorGrey> It will be similar to Scheme, but very minimal
<KorGrey> I will not be creating any high-level structures, as I am relying on genetic programming to evolve some sort of system...
<water> hmm
<water> genetically-programmed CONS structures?
<KorGrey> I just found the phrase. It is most similar to the primitive expressions found in R5RS
<KorGrey> genetically-programming shceduling and memory management
<KorGrey> s/programming/programmed
<water> interesting
<water> ever heard of re-write logic?
<KorGrey> do you mean FPGAs, or a specific company?
<water> someone wrote this paper about a system where they used re-write logic to describe the operation of a whole family of GC's and memory managers
<water> it's a kind of symbolic logic
<water> there are even a few programming languages built from this logic
<KorGrey> oh, I havent heard of it, but it sounds like I should read about it
<KorGrey> it might help to minimize the choices the GP algorithms need to choose from
<water> http://www.loria.fr/~vigneron/RewritingHP/
<water> that's the rewriting home page
<water> the best rewrite language that i've noticed is Maude
<water> don't worry, the rewrite concept is really simple
<KorGrey> :) mosre postscript surveys
<KorGrey> s/mosre/more
<water> ps surveys?
08:50pm
<KorGrey> I followed the surveys link
<water> oh
<water> yeah, i've got about 1.2 GB of research papers on my hard drive
<KorGrey> me too, I need a bigger monitor though, postscript just doesnt layout flexibly
<KorGrey> and ghostscript/gc seem to fail on some recent pdf's from Digital/Compaq
<water> KorGrey: got a home page or faq about your project?
<water> yeah, i hope that there will be a fix for that kind of thing
<KorGrey> water: not yet... I have been working on one on and off though
<water> k
<KorGrey> The project is called The Kor
<water> have you heard of my arrow system?
<KorGrey> yes
<water> "The Kor"? sounds like an artifact in a fantasy rpg
<KorGrey> it was The Core, but I love to shorten things
<water> oh ok
<KorGrey> core as in the orthogonal base, of a completely reflective system
<water> that's cool
<KorGrey> thats also where I got my nick :)
* water/#tunes realizes something.
<water> KorGrey = core?
<KorGrey> tada
<water> geez
<KorGrey> oh wait, but not the core of tunes.org
<KorGrey> i was core b4
<KorGrey> :/
<KorGrey> very confusing
<water> huh?
<water> yes
<KorGrey> I am not the core who is mentioned on the tunes.org page...
<water> so, you're not the core that i talk with usually
<KorGrey> no
<water> and i thought that i was being fooled
<water> :)
<KorGrey> hehe
09:00pm
<KorGrey> I am skimming the arrow papper, forgot which papper it was
<water> ah. there's an "intro to arrow logic" paper which explains the basis for my ideas quite well. it explains the current research field of arrow logic
<water> abi: accial?
<abi> somebody said accial was "A Crash Course in Arrow Logic" at ftp://ftp.phil.uu.nl/pub/logic/PREPRINTS/preprint107.ps.Z
<KorGrey> have you started implementing a system using arrow logic yet?
<water> yes, i have some simple squeak code that i'm currently developing into a full "arrow vm" if you will
<water> it even fits on a pda ;)
<KorGrey> what are you using as a base?
<water> squeak = free smalltalk implementation
<KorGrey> Do you like sqeak? I have been using RScheme for my prototyping
<water> very much so, although i usually strip out the extra stuff that comes with the release updates
<water> the good graphics and gui support is the pivotal factor for me choosing it over a lisp
<KorGrey> would you say it has a smaller base then RScheme? (if you have used RScheme) I havent tried sqeak
<water> and i can still code in lisp within it
<water> what do you consider the base?
09:10pm
<water> i guess squeak vm + gui code + code-gen + c-translator + basic apps = 1.5MB
<KorGrey> what I can easily reduce the system too... in RScheme I can just not include anything but a few core objects
<KorGrey> but RScheme uses its object system all the way to the core, making it still not tiny
<water> dunno. i've tried using rscheme and other lisps, but the CLI bandwidth for learning the system is way too small for me
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<KorGrey> I have never used SmallTalk before... and the syntax looks confusing... but so did lisp, when I was just a C guy :/
<water> its not bad. the only syntax is message-sends, which just pass tuples of objects in a way that allows syntax-sugaring
<water> well, there's more than that, but that's the only new thing to learn
09:20pm
<water> be back in an hour
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09:30pm
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* liar/#tunes is BACK [away time = 5h:3m:28s]
<eihrul> liar
<liar> hey
<abi> hoy, liar
<eihrul> what'd you get her?
<liar> $20 :)
<ruiner> anybody here know of any good bare bones systems deals?
<liar> ruiner: what ya looking for?
<liar> i can beat any price in town
10:10pm
<ruiner> amd k6 3 450 w/ 64 meg of ram, agp port, a few pci, a couple isa....good case....mouse, keyboard, power supply
<liar> hdd?
<liar> cdrom?
<ruiner> got one already
<ruiner> got one already
<liar> $250
<ruiner> ummmm......vendor?
<liar> u want a vendor? i can stick it in a compaq case for ya :)
<ruiner> no...
<ruiner> actually he might really hate that.....do it for giggles
<liar> how about packard bell?
<ruiner> hmmmmm...nah.....he's got a thing about hating compaq....put it in that ;-p
<ruiner> seriously though, we got this bare bones system here....motherboard is hosed
<ruiner> they claim they test everything before they ship it
<liar> i test everything before it ship it
<liar> s/it ship/i ship/
<ruiner> heh heh
<ruiner> what do you suggest we do? think we could get our money back? he got it from adamant
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<liar> i would make an attempt to get my money back
<ruiner> k
<liar> what did u pay?>
<ruiner> failing that?
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<ruiner> 440
<liar> did u only buy a motherboard?
<ruiner> no, it came as a bare bones system
<liar> what all did u get? include brand names 
<ruiner> case, power supply, mouse, keyboard, floppy drive, memory, processor
<liar> power supply is part of the case
<ruiner> not always
<ruiner> anyhow...
<ruiner> elitegroup motherboard
<ruiner> amd k6-3 450
<ruiner> probably some generic floppy drive
<ruiner> other than that it shouldn't really matter....dunno about the case or the mouse or keyboard....but those shouldn't matter
<liar> what kinda mouse/keyboard, what size ram and what kind dimm/simm/speed
<ruiner> 64 meg dimm of ram
<liar> and u paid $440?
<ruiner> 100 mhz dimm
<liar> what speed is the ram
<liar> no 100mhz means it handle 100mhz
<liar> i wanna know what it can max at
10:20pm
<liar> 10ns to 6ns
<ruiner> oh.....no clue....don't have the documentation....don't think they sent any and we don't have the advertisement here
<liar> well 6ns is usually the fastest u can buy and it will handle a bus speed of 166mhz
<ruiner> hmmm.....that info doesn't really help out right here
<liar> that fag
<liar> my friend got a 21" at an auction today
<liar> did u get a minitower?
<liar> at or atx
10:30pm
<liar> serial/ps2/usb mouse, 2 or 3 button?
<liar> anyways i can get the best of all that stuff for $250 exactly
<liar> and my stuff has names on it
<liar> $300 and u get a 4.3gig hdd
10:40pm
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<water> back
<liar> welcome
<liar> you've got mail!
<water> ?
<liar> :)
<water> uh. sure
<liar> never used aol?
<water> no
10:50pm
<liar> wow the p3-550 is 10 times the price of my celeron 366
<liar> and they both run at the same speed
11:10pm
<liar> hahahahaha
<liar> uswest.net hasnt edited all the config files for qmail
11:20pm
[msg(TUNES)] newlog 1999.0822
IRC log ended Sun Aug 22 00:00:00 1999